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so what does everyone think about arnolds decision (pg. 8)
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| RapidFire |
| I stand by my belief that taking a life (no matter the circumstances) is wrong. so the governments that issue death penalties are no better than the criminals themselves in that respect. Blood for blood is barbaric and no one gives the government the right to take the criminals life (well they have about as much right as the criminal has for taking the victims' lives). its not like the criminals can cause anymore harm and a life spent in prison is grim enough. this needs to stop. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by stevieboy32808
So why didn't she say so!!! |
You'll have to forgive me on that one...totally my fault as I'm not always good at explaining myself in such a manner that everyone can understand. Which is why I said to stop asking me questions in the first place. But alas, no one wanted to listen.
*siiiigh* |
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| stevieboy32808 |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
You'll have to forgive me on that one...totally my fault as I'm not always good at explaining myself in such a manner that everyone can understand. Which is why I said to stop asking me questions in the first place. But alas, no one wanted to listen.
*siiiigh* |
LOL at the pun, you're forgiven.
| quote: | Originally posted by IDarkISwordI
So youre saying a mentally handicapped person can kill someone accidentally and should be put to death? This seems wrong to me. |
He wasn't handicapped during the murderers and was not handicapped up until his execution. Pulling a trigger several times is not accidental.
| quote: | | Originally posted by IDarkISwordI How about crimes of passion? |
Unless you are a psychologist I don't think none of us can make this assessment.
| quote: | Originally posted by IDarkISwordI
Take Hitler for another example. Do you seriously think he didnt have any mental dissorders when he killed 11m people?! |
He was well aware of his objectives and that was world domination. He believed the only way this could have been achieved was to get rid of the impurities in the social German class and ultimately around the world.
| quote: | Originally posted by IDarkISwordI
Becoming a priest overnight does nothing however. Tookie had been writing book for quite a while and obvsiously had turned his life around. |
This should sum it up:
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbital32
yes he did deserver to die. he deserved to die 100% There is no law that says "write books then we forgive the killings" Screw the books. he can write 1,000,000 books and it still won't forgive the lives he took. The sad part of our justice system is that it gives them enought time to write books. As a governer how would you explain to the family that you gave clemency because the killer writes great at a 3rd grade level? |
| quote: | Originally posted by IDarkISwordI
What kind of sick fantasy are you living in where no matter the high crime, people should be executed? |
In the U.S. we punish people according to the severity of the crime and not "no matter the high crime" as you put it.
| quote: | Originally posted by IDarkISwordI
I'm not a religous person, and I dont really have morals but I do have some serious opinions on ethics of humanity. Seriously... whats wrong with letting him do a life sentence :conf:. |
Don't confuse ethics with morals. Yes they mean the same thing except for one difference. Ethics are a fixed set of morals that you may or may not be in favor of. For example if you work in a bank they give all employees a code of ethics that they must abide by. You may not agree with some of their rules but you agree to them regardless. Think of ethics as a subgenre of morals. Morals are based solely on a person's unrestricted set of beliefs.
| quote: | Originally posted by IDarkISwordI
And btw, forgiving someone and then executing them is like having say... someone break something of yours, you forgive them for it and then proceed to kick the out of him. Doesnt make any sense. |
This is probably the one thing that I DO agree with you on. I find it absurd to forgive a person, but resort to "kicking the crap out of him" as you put it. That too doesn't make any sense for me either. |
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| Aiwendil |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
You'll have to forgive me on that one...totally my fault as I'm not always good at explaining myself in such a manner that everyone can understand. Which is why I said to stop asking me questions in the first place. But alas, no one wanted to listen.
*siiiigh* |
It was when you agreed with naesean. Did you agree with naesan? In his post he made clemency and execution the difference between forgiveness and condemnation. By agreeing with that, you implied that you thought the same. Why am I thinking. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aiwendil
It was when you agreed with naesean. Did you agree with naesan? In his post he made clemency and execution the difference between forgiveness and condemnation. By agreeing with that, you implied that you thought the same. Why am I thinking. |
No I wasn't agreeing with him. Just pointing out that I thought what he said was important. Everyone was talking about what Tookie deserved, but no one had mentioned forgiveness up to that point. |
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| igottaknow |
| Where were all the right to life nuts who went crazy over that women who was brain dead in FL? I guess only embrios, stem cells, and brain dead ppl have the "right" to live. :conf: |
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| stevieboy32808 |
| quote: | Originally posted by igottaknow
Where were all the right to life nuts who went crazy over that women who was brain dead in FL? I guess only embrios, stem cells, and brain dead ppl have the "right" to live. :conf: |
She was never alive to begin with. Autopsies later revealed that the brain had shrunk dramatically, which according to doctors, means that the brain has been inactive all these years. |
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| Aiwendil |
Well, since i've already put my feet in.
I think Arnold made the right decision for Arnold. Tookie's death is not his fault, because Tookie's death is a result of Tookie's actions and The Law. I think both the arguments for clemency and execution had strong moral backing. Perhaps equal moral backing. Who could make the "right" decision between the two? I think that in the end, Arnold chose not to choose. Whether he forgave tookie or not, he let the law be carried forward, because the law does not forgive or condemn. The law simply is. All are equal before the law. Don't blame Tookie's execution on Arnold. Blame it on Tookie, or if you wish, the law. Blame it on the "system", if you wish. |
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| Silky Johnson |
Well it's settled then!
Close the thread! |
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| igottaknow |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aiwendil
Well, since i've already put my feet in.
I think Arnold made the right decision for Arnold. Tookie's death is not his fault, because Tookie's death is a result of Tookie's actions and The Law. I think both the arguments for clemency and execution had strong moral backing. Perhaps equal moral backing. Who could make the "right" decision between the two? I think that in the end, Arnold chose not to choose. Whether he forgave tookie or not, he let the law be carried forward, because the law does not forgive or condemn. The law simply is. All are equal before the law. Don't blame Tookie's execution on Arnold. Blame it on the law. |
if it was that simple we wouldn't need judges and juries. We'd have a computer mead out punishment according to the law. Its safe to assume arnold wasn't going to grant clemancy in any case because it would further weaken his conservative base that is all about tough on crime approach. |
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| Lepanto |
| he and his defense did nothing to prove his innocence. rot in hell, bastard :gsmile: and to boot, his little attempts to redeem himself don't change his crimes. |
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| Aiwendil |
| quote: | Originally posted by igottaknow
if it was that simple we wouldn't need judges and juries. |
The job of a judge is to interpret the law. If a judge was in place of Arnold and truly was doing his or her job, he or she would not have granted clemency. As far as juries go, I don't want to get into it. Let's just say that most juries aren't qualified to be juries. We really don't need them. Not in their current form.
Anyway, I think it is quite as simple as I said it is. Whether Tookie was really innocent or guilty, I was only giving my opinion on Arnold's decision (or non-decision as I believe it to be). Arnold is not a judge. Arnold is a former bodybuilder-turned actor-turned governor. I see nothing in those credentials that grants him the ability to make the absolute "right" decision in a case like this. I think he saw that as well. |
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