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so what does everyone think about arnolds decision (pg. 7)
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| IDarkISwordI |
| I'm not sure Hitler could be forgiven for all of his acts, but he obviously had some serious mental issues. In other words, I think hed be well suited in a mental institution, but if someone had actually shot him on the battlefield, I wouldnt cry about it. Stalin, again, not all there. Saddam, hes a unique case. While I think its a disgrace to him and his people that he went up and gassed people of his country, its not exactly a cut and dry case. While these people may have mostly been innocent, they might as well have been a semi-hostile country. I cant recall hearing about any serious hostile actions from the Kurds towards the rest of Iraq but at the same time, they were very outspoken against Iraq and wanted to seperate. While thinking of them as a seperate country, how is it different for the US to go over and tear the out of the majority of Iraq? While not necessarily killing people immediately, destroying farms and homes tends to cut down on population. All the while, had Saddam been kept in power, there wouldnt be a big ing mess in the middle east, and there would be far fewer people pissed at us. Like pissing into a bees nest... |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Azz3D
care to explain the concept of forgiveness? |
I'm not a spiritual leader, so it's not my place to teach you forgiveness. If you're really interested to understand what it means, find out for yourself...you'll be a better person for it.
I'm not trying to prove anything to you here. It's no loss to me if you don't understand my point of view, so I'm not going to waste my energy trying to do so.
By your attitude alone, I can already tell anything I would say to you would go in one ear and right out the other anyways. You're not really trying to understand me, so therefore you're not worthy of me explaining myself to you.
BUT
Simply put, forgiveness is a spiritual act. Does that help? |
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| stevieboy32808 |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
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I'm guessing this is what you mean:
In 1981 Pope John Paul II was shot during an assisination attempt by Turkish-born Mehmet Ali Agca who was working for the Bulagrian secret service in Soviet Russia. Trained as an expert marksman, Agca did not understand why the Pope did not die. After the Pope's recovery he met with Agca in a private meeting in his jail cell. The contents of the meeting remain a secret except for one thing -the Pope forgave him. Ever since that meeting the Pope maintained regular visits with Agca's family and became friends with his attempted assasin. Agca later referred to the Pope as "my spiritual brother" Upon hearing of the Pope's death in April of 2005 he was grief-striken and mourned the tragic loss. Many have hailed the Pope's reconciliation with Agca as an example of the Christian principle of forgiveness.
From what I understand your concept of forgiveness is based on faith and not reason. We must always use common sense when judging events such as Tookie's death that if someone commits a crime he must be punished. If you look at this using a faith based approach then even the Bible uses this type of reason. I dare you go ahead and break a commandment and see what happens to you in the afterlife. |
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| Aiwendil |
| I think you're all (except one) confusing forgiveness with not executing Tookie. You can still forgive him even though the execution went forward. Okay? |
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| Azz3D |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
By your attitude alone, I can already tell anything I would say to you would go in one ear and right out the other anyways.
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now you're just making assumptions
i am willing to listen if you're willing to explain
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BUT
Simply put, forgiveness is a spiritual act. Does that help? |
no it does not help
say I murder 20 people, go to jail, get sentenced to death
then somehow, overnight, I become a priest and find my real, inner person, and god. I start preaching all about love, life and peace
I would call that spirituality, wouldn't you?
do I deserve to die?
and those of you saying a mental problem is an excuse to something like this happening, I don't buy a word of it
it's like how Ritalin suddenly became americans' solution and excuse for everything
a kid kills half of his school? who's to blame? no one. lets put him on ritalin, he has ADD...
bull
like I said, I am willing to listen if you're willing to talk jenny
"spirituality" isn't cutting it
you simply cannot sum up something like this in one word |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aiwendil
I think you're all (except one) confusing forgiveness with not executing Tookie. You can still forgive him even though the execution went forward. |
Thank you. |
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| igottaknow |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
This is the most important thing anyone's said in this thread so far.
I don't think very many people today truly understand what forgiveness REALLY means. |
i forgive you for wearing peaearrings, just don't let it happen again.
sincerely,
the fashion police
ps
arnie's decision to do Kindergarten Cop was an even bigger mistake. His career has been on the wane ever since. |
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| stevieboy32808 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aiwendil
I think you're all (except one) confusing forgiveness with not executing Tookie. You can still forgive him even though the execution went forward. Okay? |
So why didn't she say so!!! All this time I though she was talking about granting tookie clemency. I took this as he doesn't deserve to be executed, but rather forgive him for his murderers and go along with the execution. So she is for the execution, but forgives him nonetheless, right? |
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| Aiwendil |
| quote: | Originally posted by stevieboy32808
So she is for the execution? |
She is "for" forgiveness. Beyond that, we do not know yet. But, since forgiveness is possible whether one agrees with the execution or not, it does not matter except as a tool for weak minds such as you to use against her in your petty emotional arguments. Or at least, it has not mattered except as such so far. |
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| IDarkISwordI |
So youre saying a mentally handicapped person can kill someone accidentally and should be put to death? This seems wrong to me. How about crimes of passion? The mental state is fuzzy when you walk in and see... your wife going at it with some guy. You kill the guy because you just suffered a tremendous amount of shock. Take Hitler for another example. Do you seriously think he didnt have any mental dissorders when he killed 11m people?! Thats a seriously gross number of people for a perfectly sane person to have executed. Trust me, he had mental dissorders.
Becoming a priest overnight does nothing however. Tookie had been writing book for quite a while and obvsiously had turned his life around. Like I keep saying, its not like he should have gone free because he needs to be punished. But isnt he being punished by having to stay locked in a prison until he dies? By having him executed, the people being punished were his family, not him. He died a quick death and yet his parents have to mourn the loss of thier child, just as the parents of the people he murdered. What kind of sick fantasy are you living in where no matter the high crime, people should be executed? I'm not a religous person, and I dont really have morals but I do have some serious opinions on ethics of humanity. Seriously... whats wrong with letting him do a life sentence :conf:.
And btw, forgiving someone and then executing them is like having say... someone break something of yours, you forgive them for it and then proceed to kick the out of him. Doesnt make any sense. |
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| Azz3D |
| quote: | Originally posted by IDarkISwordI
Seriously... whats wrong with letting him do a life sentence :conf:.
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there is nothing wrong with it
the only reason why I would keep him alive is this: it costs the taxpayers less.
other than that, he can rot in hell
I don't care how many books he's written or how many nobel peace prizes was he nominated for...
Yassir Afafat even won that award...I guess that shows just how worthless this award is
oh by the way I was not referring to the mental disorders such as tourettes and parkinsons and such
those can be understood
i was referring to ADD/ADHD craze and such bull which was simply invented as an excuse, nothing else |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aiwendil
She is "for" forgiveness. Beyond that, we do not know yet. But, since forgiveness is possible whether one agrees with the execution or not, it does not matter except as a tool for weak minds such as you to use against her in your petty emotional arguments. Or at least, it has not mattered except as such so far. |
There ya go.
Which brings me back to my earlier statement that most people REALLY don't understand the concept of forgiveness.
And also that this thread needs more Octave One! |
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