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Is techno a form of art? (pg. 9)
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by andreas1999
YES! and this is were you and i differ, for me dance music is made for dancing not sitting back listening to. if i want that i'll listen to pop/rock music. it's just very (un)fortunate that dance music can also be listened to. |
See I don't think of all stuff labeled dance is pure dance. When I think of pure dance music, I think of relentless beats, something very rhythmic that doesn't stop, just keeps going and going. The way I see a lot of trance over the ages, it has compositional qualities that set it apart from the vast majority of techno and house (aside from the deeper, or experimental or ambient stuff). Trance, since around Chicane and BT's time, and with PvD and the like, they created compositions based around melody, harmony, and even using some vocals. They molded it with other forms and created artist albums of this stuff. Now you don't see this as often with the techno and house guys, as that tends to be on mixed CDs, and when they do make albums, it's usually less relentless and more chilled, like Carl Cox did. Trance with the breakdowns, build ups and the melody of course, is very listenable. I mean I started listening to this stuff before I went to clubs (even though I don't go much anymore). I liked trance, and still do, because of the emotion in it, the melody and the warmth, and find it more listenable then the techno i've heard.
When I go to a club, I'de actually prefer dancing to techno or house or harder trance, but when I'm at home, i'de prefer listening to melodic trance or some deep and spacey prog. Trance I feel is a style that has potentional to be more than just "dance music" because of it's qualities, I mean there's non dance techno, and non dance house, and there is also non dance trance, and I think you might start seeing this more in the future. I think Chicane started this in the beginning, esp with his Far From The Maddening Crowds CD, I mean some of those tracks were not super dancey, they were at a slower BPM, so this is what is possible, and I already see some artists releasing slower BPM trance tracks...Rock music started as dance, so did Jazz, so trance and other forms of EDM have this potentional and in a way, have already done it.
| quote: | Originally posted by andreas1999
You could be right or it could just be that there's emotion and umaneness in techno as well, only it isn't as obvious as with trance. that's why i think trance sounds cheesy, it's like comparing a ballad by britney spears to something by a 70's progressive rock band. if it's about love, you know britney will have "love" in the title of the track and she'll mention love 100 times before the song is over.
i'm not saying there's a lot of emotion in techno, it is about dancing after all, but there's certainly not cold or detached. when a dj is playing it, mixing with one track, eq:ing, playing with it, it grows and changes. |
Well I don't think that's the right analogy. I think some trance tries too hard, sure, but there's others like "Vital Spark", or Kalafut & Fygle's "3579 KM" that I don't see as trying too hard. They convey emotion, but in a sublime, ethereal and just beautiful way. And trance has typically done this. They aren't quite the melodramatic stuff that is released nowadays and in the past. See I'm not into that stuff, but I don't see emotion in a lot of the techno I have heard. Yeah sure there's probably some techno that is more emotional, but I just don't feel it personally. Maybe while dancing it will bring about emotion, but when I'm at home listening, no, don't think so.
Just because it has a breakdown or is melodic doesn't make it cheesy. Cheesy to me is stuff tha tries too hard or stuff that sounds downright stupid, like Cascada or Ian van Dahl. That is not the stuff I like. There's plenty of prog that is emotional too, just hear some of the tuns in my sig. We are different people, so I respect your views, however to me, emotion is important in my music that I listen to, and trance conveys this better then techno or house, well maybe house is a close second, esp deep house. I really don't see the tracks I like as trying too hard, they just give it to you, the melody, the breakdown (whether short or large) and just a sense of warmth and humaneness, that I haven't found as much in techno.
| quote: | Originally posted by andreas1999
if you want an example of a track that conveys more emotion than your average trance anthem then find "Elektrochemie - Don't Go" (came out a few weeks ago, i think). I guess it's not exactly techno but it's minimal at least.
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Well i'll check it out but I don't equate emotion with minimalism. To you that is, but I equate emotion with warmth, with textures, with a feeling of beauty or sadness conveyed through harmonics and melody and just this "feeling" the track conveys. I'm not that big into trance anthems really anymore. I don't equate the stuff I'm into nowadays with "trance anthems" even "Vital Spark", I equate them with trance-compositions, similar to classical music but with a greater emphasis on beat and with 21st century technology. It might not exactly be "classical music" but it follows a similar form, and has compositional qualities that I feel set it a part from most techno and house and some other forms of electronic music. An extension of what Jean Michel Jarre had worked on, I think he's had more influence on trance sounds then even the detroit techno guys, thats the way I see it. |
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJFreaq
I can see there side. But I also see Nou's side. Also
me = too lazy to edit my chats
| quote: | | [09:02] koreshuushin: well its like all they ing talk about is music, they have no interest outside of music, they are like ing annoying wapanese otaku that all they can do is talk about how good EDM music is and no even know there is a world outside of EDM, music or otherwise |
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as opposed to by him, who: ...its like all he ing talks about is Al, he has no interest outside of her, he is like ing annoying wapanese otaku that all he can do is talk about how good Al is and not even know there is a world outside of her, people or otherwise. |
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| DJFreaq |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
as opposed to by him, who: ...its like all he ing talks about is Al, he has no interest outside of her, he is like ing annoying wapanese otaku that all he can do is talk about how good Al is and not even know there is a world outside of her, people or otherwise. |
LOL. so agreed. all he does talk about is al!
he's a weird kid
[09:09] DJ Freaq: 8o| cheer up damnit
[09:09] koreshuushin: huh lol, im talking to allie sorry
[09:09] DJ Freaq: 8o| talking to allie makes you frustrated
[09:10] koreshuushin: no lol actually it calms me down half the time
[09:10] DJ Freaq: 8o|
[09:10] koreshuushin: security blanket remember... pacifier
[09:10] DJ Freaq: 8o|
[09:10] koreshuushin: etc
Oh well. |
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| Zombie0915 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Psy-T
the equipment and the technology have very little to do with it, my production-based criticisms of your sig in that other thread were production based because it's the (only?) objectively quantifiable aspect of music making.
there's no lack of late 80's-early 90's music that has higher production values than most music out today, such a lack does exist in the netlabels scene (based on my limited observation of it). |
I think your criticisms of my picks are valid, this comment wasn't so much directed at you. I'm not throwing a tantrum because you didnt like my selections. I can find plenty of published music from a simpler time that has high production values without fancy equipment, but if said music were resleased today I feel that many would ignore it because of that lack of fancy stuff, and that is what I'm whining about in this particular thread.
Maybe an example so people dont think I'm full of . In the early days of computer music before digital synthesis was common, the focus was on compositional algorightms. People would use computer programs to aid them in generating scores which were played by live instruments. But in the 90's compositional algorightms were all but dead, people would try to put out those same styles of pieces with comp algorightms made using regular computers and performed with live instruments but they wouldn't get appreciated by the computer music audience because they all preferred music that was full of fresh digital synthesis, despite some of those comp algo pieces being pretty nice.
That type of behavior is what bothers me, too much focus on the cutting edge, too much materialism. |
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| Zombie0915 |
yeah that too.
The kraftwerk music that gets stuck in my head more is "computer love" and "pocket calculator"
I go to school, do some math problems, then I start chanting that silly line "im the operator of my pocket calculator"
or I get online, get on TA, talk some bull with you all and find myself singing "cooooompuuuuta, cooooompuuuuuta"
How much of an investment you think kraftwerk made on all their production machinery. |
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| renttresnor |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0915
"pocket calculator" |
The lyrics to that one get stuck in my head from time to time.
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How much of an investment you think kraftwerk made on all their production machinery. |
When? That's what they had in 1981. I suppose it was all damn expensive back then. Not counting all their live show equipment and coreography, which was all so complicated and hard to move that for a time they couldn't transport it overseas to do tours... |
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| Psy-T |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zombie0915
How much of an investment you think kraftwerk made on all their production machinery. |
at least $30,000 based on that 1981 gear list. |
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| eFeKz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jimmy
No.
Trance for example. And house, but by it's nature house has a whole other vibe. |
how is trance not art? theres much more to trance than techno...:rolleyes: |
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| Semirk |
| quote: | Originally posted by eFeKz
how is trance not art? theres much more to trance than techno...:rolleyes: |
No, theres about as much to each. I bet you havent paid full attention to a techno track, its all about the little details not the full-blown changes. They are two different genres which deserve their own merits. |
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| eFeKz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Semirk
No, theres about as much to each. I bet you havent paid full attention to a techno track, its all about the little details not the full-blown changes. They are two different genres which deserve their own merits. |
very true. |
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| Zombie0915 |
| it boils down to timbre vs melody and which is most important to you. They kinda overlap a little though. |
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| DJFreaq |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nou
Wow thanks Adam... |
Np, np. Just representing both sides.
Although you've been really good with me lately. I don't get much whining about Allie. Mostly positive stuff.
(y) +1 for you. |
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