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500,000 people protest immigration bill in Los Angeles (pg. 9)
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| Shamen DJ's |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lepanto
oh ok so let's go back in history. we whipped mexican's ass in war and/or we bought land from them so how is it their's again lol? how are they more spanish? because they actually speak spanish and the illegals give all of them bad names. i worked and have friendships with many of them, i guess i'm just making that up too. which words?
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That really doesn't make any sense. Mexico is just as diverse a country as the U.S. People from Chihuahuah are every bit as different from people living in Mexico City as are city dweller New Yorkers from red necks living in Hazard, Kentucky.
While on the topic, there are 10 000 Mexican immigrants living in my home town that are not even of Spanish descent, they are actually originally from Germany. Yes, most Mexican Mennonites are German, while they do speak spanish being that thats the majority language in Mexico. See www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bi...es/041027ottawa |
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| OurManFlint |
| quote: | Originally posted by Shamen DJ's
While on the topic, there are 10 000 Mexican immigrants living in my home town that are not even of Spanish descent, they are actually originally from Germany. Yes, most Mexican Mennonites are German, while they do speak spanish being that thats the majority language in Mexico. See www.canadianchristianity.com/cgi-bi...es/041027ottawa |
Exactly. What Lepanto doesn't get is that people from Latin America do not have to be of Spanish decent. My great Grandmother, who lived in Mexico, was French. Their isn't an awareness in Latin America about who is more Spanish because they are their own counties distinct from Spain with their own identity.
He's also trying to justify that Mexican's are not Spanish enough because they can't speak Spanish. I'm still looking for proof on that one. |
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| daydreamer |
i think many of topics brought up in this thread deserve to be analyzed and debated about in their own thread.
but getting back to topic.
the issue i have with many of the protests done are the following:
1. Many of those marching don't know what they are marching for. It seems to me that many of the kids "walking-out" of school are just doing it because they don't want to be in school to begin with. And of course, these are the ones being interviewed by the Media. :rolleyes:
2. Many of those marching are the same who actually don't take advantage of the right for an education. what is it, i think 1 in 5 mexicans will actually graduate from high school.
3. those who alieanate people who would actually support the cause if it weren't for their juvenile actions, of which am sure many of you are aware of. e.g. bring down the USA flag and raising the Mexican flag.
more to come... |
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| Shamen DJ's |
| quote: | Originally posted by daydreamer
Many of those marching are the same who actually don't take advantage of the right for an education. what is it, i think 1 in 5 mexicans will actually graduate from high school.
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I would suspect that thise statistics are from Mexico where alot of youth quit school to work & help support their families.
I think a good solution for the problem would be a cooperative joint bills between Mexico & the U.S.
1) Mexico passing a bill making high school graduation mandatory. School drop outs face jail. Such a bill passed long ago in Chile has resulted in Chile having among the most educated & literate youth in the Americas, a booming economy, a good quality of living & an average life expectancy equalling Canadas. Also anyone currently over the age of 18 has 3 years to get a GED to keep their drivers licence. Mexico needs to invest large into its education system NOW to obtain much larger returns in the future. Schools in Mexico should be run on double shifts so that students that work during the day can attend classes in the evening.
2) The U.S should require a high school graduation & english literacy & a reasonable knowledge of U.S. history to obtain citizenship. This shold apply to immigrants from all countries. I would suspect that most of the more educated Mexican professional class has no plans on coming to the U.S. because they have a good standard of living there, it is everyone else that is trying to come over.
3) Mexico needs a very strict economic plan for the future that includes very tough penalties for all corrupt public officials. I think that U.S's leading economists, scholers , forestry experts, high tech industrialists & agriculturalists should work together on "The Blue Print For Mexicos Future" that includes a development plan for every town & every state in Mexico. If Mexicos economy is strong then I really dont think too many people would choose to leave their family & friends to come to the U.S. In fact, many Chileans living in North America are returning to Chile with their current economic success. I should know, my brothers wife ( Chilean ) is planning on moving back there with my brother ( he likes it there, and they bought a property there ) and their kids. I think rebuilding Mexico would have benifeted the U.S. far more than rebuilding Iraq, and the Mexicans would appreaciate it. |
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| Shamen DJ's |
I'm suprised our incompetent president didn't bring that issue up on his latest visit with Vencente Fox. I think Mexico should remove that from their constitution, if they want American profits being sent back to Mexico. The U.S. could very easily give temporary work visas to residents of every developing country other than Mexico.
Thank you. Very interesting article. |
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| LiquidX |
The legalization of millions of indocumented aliens would only benefit the US. Eitherway.. its a hot potate on washington.
In other news.. Bush is screwed. :p |
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| venomX |
Srsly just because a lot of people in latin america, specially people in the caribbean as you pointed out lepanto do not like mexicans, or consider them less "latin", not "spanish" doesnt mean that much. its a culture competition that happens in latin america, each country takes a lot of pride on their own things. it is true that a lot of people from the caribbean would consider mexicans more "north america" than "latin", but its all short sighted comments that if you probe those people harder youll see them agree with you that mexicans are as latin as any other country in latin america. i guess its a very difficult point to explain if your not part of latin america so pardon me if doesnt get across. as for mexicans being the low life in latin america, depending on how you describe low life, there are countries in latin america with worse illeteracy, poverty, and crime rates than mexico. mexico happens to be one of the few latin american powerhouses, including brazil, chile, and until recently argentina.
as far as the topic goes i think the US could come up with more creative ways to deal with their inmigrants. closing their borders will only make crossing more dangerous and difficult, but it wont stop it. they could make it easier to apply to get in and just set high standards such as a high school degree and knowing english as its been mentioned already. i dont particularly know how it is to apply for a green card in the states and im too lazy to check ATM so yeah :p |
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| Dale Gribble |
To stay on topic;
View of immigration issue from one who came in legally
By JOHN H. GOEB
COMMUNITY VOICES
It had never been my intent to go public with my personal experiences, including the fact that in August of 1956 I became a very proud American citizen. But first, let's go back to where my struggle for legal and permanent entry to the United States began.
It did not matter to the U.S. consulate in Frankfurt, Germany that I had during WWII aided the resistance against the German military occupation of Holland; that I had worked as a translator for U.S. Military Government of Germany from 1945 to 1950, with special emphasis on assisting in U.S.-led investigations preparatory to the second round of the Nurenberg War Crimes Tribunals. (I had at one time even interrogated infamous Ilse Koch of concentration camp notoriety.)
And it did not matter that I had a perfectly clean personal and criminal record -- I was listed as a quota immigrant, and I had American sponsors applying in person at the U. S. Consulate. It did not speed things up one iota.
Yes, back then a prospective immigrant had to have an American sponsor with demonstrable financial resources. In August of 1948, I was only one of 320,000 Europeans who had filed their applications for a visa and permanent U.S. residency. I visited the U.S. consulate at least twice a month, pestering the Vice Consul in charge of processing visa applications, until in sheer exasperation (as I heard later on from that Vice Consul's receptionist) I was granted the coveted documents ahead of what was supposed to be my turn. The Vice Consul finally needed to get rid of me.
Persistence on my part had been the key word. I sailed aboard an ocean liner on Sept. 24, 1950 from Antwerp, Belgium. The steamer arrived at New York harbor on Sept. 5. Yet despite my new passport and approval papers from the U. S. Consulate in Frankfurt, I still had to pass through a lengthy interrogation by U.S. Immigration inspectors before I was permitted to step off the ship at Pier 84.
Back then one had to file for First Papers, to declare one's determination of wanting to become a U.S. citizen. Subsequently I received my Green Card.
As soon as I had settled in New Jersey in Spring of 1951, with the Korean War getting to be serious, I had to register for the draft. (I still have my Selective Service draft card.) Although I was never called up, I would have joined the U.S. military at the drop of a hat. Thanks to a thorough technical training and schooling (Journeyman and Master's certificates) I had instantly marketable skills. There was always a job opening for me, and I worked until I reached 70 years of age.
In the autumn of 1955 I had filed my application for U.S. citizenship, but it was July 1956 before I was ordered to sit for an examination. I went through two days of grilling: I had to know the basics of American history, the U.S. Constitution, the names of American presidents from Abraham Lincoln forward. I was also shown a wall map of the United States with the outlines of the (then) 48 states but no names or cities. I had to tell the examiner the name of each state and the name of each state capitol city. In the course of all this I had to demonstrate a modicum of fluency in the English language. (I had no problem with that, I had been fluent in English while I still lived in Europe.) Also, my American sponsors had to be in attendance during these two days, in order to vouch for my good character and morals.
Finally, on Aug. 24, 1956, I was sworn in as a U.S. citizen in the federal courthouse in Brooklyn, N.Y. It was, and has always been, the proudest day of my life. That day I also received the franchise, the right to vote, and unless I was out of the country, at sea or on a work project in the islands, I have faithfully voted in every election in which I was eligible to cast my ballot.
In my firm opinion, every person aspiring to enter the USA to live and work here, should have a visa issued by a U.S. Consulate in his/her country of origin. There are laws and regulations to that effect on the books; entering the USA without documentation is an act of breaking the law, period! These law breakers, when apprehended, should be deported forthwith.
I was residing in Miami after Fidel Castro, in a coup, ousted Batista and took over Cuba. Unfortunately, our administration at that time lacked the necessary perception to cope with the situation, which played right into the hands of Soviet Russia. Yet, we allowed Cuban refugees, little by little, to enter this country. Worse, as I remember only too well, was former president Carter's bland invitation to open our hearts and doors (to the Cubans) which Castro cheerfully took advantage of and promptly let loose 125,000 criminals and mentally ill to flood ashore in our country. It took years afterward to round up the worst cases and keep them contained. Who paid for it all?
Back in 1965 I had started my own small business in the marine field and needed a work shop along the Miami River. My application with the Small Business Administration was turned down, while the same week a Cuban, fresh off his inner tube, was granted a loan so he could purchase a van to use in his own new business. The lady processing my application told me afterward I could not get a SBA loan because I was of the wrong nationality and color.
I fully understand and agree that most of today's immigrants are willing to work hard, and often for the lowest wages, especially if they are illegals. I observed quite a bit of this when I was on U.S. Navy assignment in San Diego. Every morning long lines of cars bearing the FRONTIER tag on the front bumper, with five or six passengers, rolled through the border check point at San Isidrio. The American customs officers in their control booths did not even bother to check the papers of each car's occupants, and certainly nobody kept track of these people if they all returned to Mexico in the evening. But American contractors servicing our aircraft carriers hired Mexican men for the worst menial jobs even Navy men would not perform.
Now to the standard claim that Mexicans perform the work Americans will not do: if employers would pay American workers decent wages, Americans would not turn these jobs down. A perfect example exists right here in Volusia County where Mexicans do the hard grunt work, under often deplorable living conditions, for low wages. This is where the employers should be taken to account, but every government official seems to look the other way. It's a sweetheart arrangement all around.
President Bush's plan to legalize the status of illegals by offering them U.S. citizenship is absurd; it would be nothing but an open invitation to "come and get it." If we are to have a truly meaningful immigration reform, start with sealing our country's borders. And furthermore, stop handing out Green Cards and other residency documents as if they were coupons or trinkets found in a box of corn flakes.
I have a hunch the immigration issue will be a key factor in the next presidential election. But if President Bush has his way, we will have 12 million illegals voting the Republican ticket. Can we afford to let this happen? |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dale Gribble
I have a hunch the immigration issue will be a key factor in the next presidential election. But if President Bush has his way, we will have 12 million illegals voting the Republican ticket. Can we afford to let this happen? |
Indeed.
The government has let this situation fester so long that they can no longer afford not to deal with it.
How they figured this wouldn't eventually bite them in the ass is what's got me scratching my head...:conf:
It was a sweet-heart deal however the deal isn't so pretty anymore... |
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| Skylight |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Indeed.
The government has let this situation fester so long that they can no longer afford not to deal with it.
How they figured this wouldn't eventually bite them in the ass is what's got me scratching my head...:conf:
It was a sweet-heart deal however the deal isn't so pretty anymore... |
It is true that they cannot afford to ignore the problem, but They will never pay the money required to fix this problem, even if there is a fair immigration reform it will never be enforced. |
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| biznology |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spirit5
One thing I don't understand is why they have a country (Mexico) if they are just going to come here and live anyways. I know we have better standard of living and more oppurtunity but isn't there anyway we or someone can help the country of Mexico, to build up it's economy, provide jobs, do something so they can have a better standard of living there? I know their president doesn't really care about any of this, but I mean if they are going to keep coming here, sooner or latter Mexico will be pretty much Mexico City and not much else (it already almost is). I just think something should be done so they wont have an excuse to keep coming to America for a better life. I can completely see why they are coming here, but I don't know if I agree with shipping them all back, nor do I completely agree with the guest worker program (though if they can become citizens from it I might not have a problem). I'm a bit undecided on this issue, but still feel strongly Mexico needs a better economy, leadership and a standard of living. If we don't do something, then the Mexican people need to rise up and demand more, but I know the country is quite poor and will need some type of economic growth in order to prosper. |
possibly the only quote within four pages that had any semblance of sense.
if we stopped using Mexico as a source of recreation/labor/cheap factories and product the outcome would be different.
the main fact of the matter is:
the USA chose to allow Mexican immigration after the depression-world war era in an effort to combat the loss of productivity. especially in the west, workers of adult age were far fewer than necessary for a booming power unhindered otherwise by the destruction of war. the whole cesar chavez thing began of this.
saying mexicans are unwelcome and no allowances should be made on their behalf ignores most of this country's history any way that you look at it.
they are here, more will come - and the only way to structure america's future with that reality is to work with both canada AND mexico.
that alone would solve many issues| |
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