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Suspected Santa gunman takes life; 8 others dead (pg. 10)
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tranceporter99
no. its not, particularly when the criminal has a gun. The gun is the great equalizer. not that difficult to grasp. |
This is really subjective in relation to the ammunitions that are being pitted against each other.
Also, as I have said previously, while banning guns will not solve the problem in the short term (millions of guns on the streets could easily be sold to criminals,) it will solve the problem in the long run. You can never have a perfect society, but at least some things can be regulated and curbed. |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
This is really subjective in relation to the ammunitions that are being pitted against each other.
Also, as I have said previously, while banning guns will not solve the problem in the short term (millions of guns on the streets could easily be sold to criminals,) it will solve the problem in the long run. You can never have a perfect society, but at least some things can be regulated and curbed. |
(sarcasm)
Yeah, because regulation and bans work great and don't cause black markets and artificial crime.
(sarcasm) |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Shibby
(sarcasm)
Yeah, because regulation and bans work great and don't cause black markets and artificial crime.
(sarcasm) |
I addressed this in my post. I am quite aware of black markets. but as more are siezed and destroyed, this becomes less of a problem. They also become cost prohibitive to ascertain for the general criminal population as they are destroyed. |
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| Aortik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tranceporter99
constantly citing the extremes without rationally thinking through possibilities is a major flaw. |
Yes, quite.
| quote: | | you have yet to prove anything or say something that hasn't been brought up before. Winning is subjective, everyone dieing is just false. |
And you have yet to address the fact that if fewer guns were obtained legally by citizens, there are far, far fewer gun-related homicides as indicated by numerous countries which have outlawed the sale and ownership of private arms possession.
I don't really see the point of arguing this with you though - private owners who do so with responsibility are not the ones that actually pose a threat - it's trigger-happy idiots who do not care a bit about the rights of others empowered by the same laws to arm themselves as a means to achieve an offense that pose any actual danger, and oh, the danger they have time and again posed.
See, thing is, I see why people own guns, why they encourage the responsible and widespread use of them and vie for their utility as a means for defending yourself and your family - all of that makes sense to me. I just think it's ignoring an overwhelming amount of data indicating that there's truly not much you need to defend yourself against in a developed country so far as guns are concerned, given appropriate social handling of their disposal. |
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| gehzumteufel |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aortik
See, thing is, I see why people own guns, why they encourage the responsible and widespread use of them and vie for their utility as a means for defending yourself and your family - all of that makes sense to me. I just think it's ignoring an overwhelming amount of data indicating that there's truly not much you need to defend yourself against in a developed country so far as guns are concerned, given appropriate social handling of their disposal. |
This. |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aortik
And you have yet to address the fact that if fewer guns were obtained legally by citizens, there are far, far fewer gun-related homicides as indicated by numerous countries which have outlawed the sale and ownership of private arms possession.
I don't really see the point of arguing this with you though - private owners who do so with responsibility are not the ones that actually pose a threat - it's trigger-happy idiots who do not care a bit about the rights of others empowered by the same laws to arm themselves as a means to achieve an offense that pose any actual danger, and oh, the danger they have time and again posed.
See, thing is, I see why people own guns, why they encourage the responsible and widespread use of them and vie for their utility as a means for defending yourself and your family - all of that makes sense to me. I just think it's ignoring an overwhelming amount of data indicating that there's truly not much you need to defend yourself against in a developed country so far as guns are concerned, given appropriate social handling of their disposal. |
Spot on Hal, I could not agree more. |
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| Yohan |
There also has to be discussion of actual enforcing of gun laws.
You break them. Make them stick.
Personally, I'm all for draconian ish sentences for breaking gun laws.
Min 10yrs for possession of unregistered or illegal gun.
For murder with gun, max life in prison with no parole before 25 yrs.
If there are strict laws, and the sentences actually stick, hopefully it'll make people think twice about committing crimes. |
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| Fledz |
| FFS, another bunch of idiots who think that legal ownership of guns in the states is a good thing. For the love of God :rolleyes: |
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| Tranceporter99 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Aortik
Yes, quite.
And you have yet to address the fact that if fewer guns were obtained legally by citizens, there are far, far fewer gun-related homicides as indicated by numerous countries which have outlawed the sale and ownership of private arms possession.
I don't really see the point of arguing this with you though - private owners who do so with responsibility are not the ones that actually pose a threat - it's trigger-happy idiots who do not care a bit about the rights of others empowered by the same laws to arm themselves as a means to achieve an offense that pose any actual danger, and oh, the danger they have time and again posed.
See, thing is, I see why people own guns, why they encourage the responsible and widespread use of them and vie for their utility as a means for defending yourself and your family - all of that makes sense to me. I just think it's ignoring an overwhelming amount of data indicating that there's truly not much you need to defend yourself against in a developed country so far as guns are concerned, given appropriate social handling of their disposal. |
Well put, and I agree with a lot of it. The last part though, I think is a little general for how big America really is. The simple fact is that the police are, minimum, 2 minutes away. It took 2 minutes for the police to arrive at Northern Illinois from the first shots. 4 people had already been killed and numerous more injured. Banning guns just allows criminals to use guns and the law abiding populace without the ability to defend themselves. That is the simple truth. Its possible that gun related homicides and violent crimes will decline if there were some drastic gun control legislation passed and enforced, but the truth is America has always had an infatuation, healthy or not, with guns. As I said earlier, its an extension of our desire for freedom and independence. You can have a philosophical argument as to whether owning a gun really grants that; but the right to bare arms will not go away very easy. Even moderate Americans that voted for Obama will give their votes to someone else if he tries something really drastic. Presidential history shows that.
thanks for debating this with some class. its refreshing :)
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
FFS, another bunch of idiots who think that legal ownership of guns in the states is a good thing. For the love of God :rolleyes: |
your a ing dumbass. I am not going to even take the time... |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tranceporter99
your a ing dumbass. I am not going to even take the time... |
"You're"
Try again. |
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| Aquadyne |
I don't see why everyone is treating America's place at the top of these charts as a bad thing.
It just means we cap more criminals per capita than everyone else. That's a good thing. |
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| jpisani |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
"You're"
Try again. |
Lol, I love when people are in an "internet feud", and they start calling people out on minute grammar mistakes. |
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