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Suspected Santa gunman takes life; 8 others dead (pg. 6)
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| Taranis |
| quote: | Originally posted by MacGuffin
The NRA released a study on it. :p
Why do tragic killings threads always have to turn into a gun debate? |
Because these tragic killings almost always happen in countries where guns are easily accessable for the general public, yet somehow people still seem to have trouble connecting the dots. |
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| Tranceporter99 |
i could bring up the second amendment and we could debate the meaning of that. how an armed populace keeps a government in check and so on; but that won't get anyone anywhere. people have their beliefs.
to each his own. I am keeping a gun for protection among other reasons. I am glad I do it. If you don't feel the need or have the desire then that is your prerogative. I just hope you have some sort of idea of what you are going to do in case something like this were to occur. The same reason you have a plan for a fire or severe weather. |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tranceporter99
i could bring up the second amendment and we could debate the meaning of that. how an armed populace keeps a government in check and so on; but that won't get anyone anywhere. people have their beliefs.
to each his own. I am keeping a gun for protection among other reasons. I am glad I do it. If you don't feel the need or have the desire then that is your prerogative. I just hope you have some sort of idea of what you are going to do in case something like this were to occur. The same reason you have a plan for a fire or severe weather. |
You keep your gun in a lock-box, I presume? |
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| Tranceporter99 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
You keep your gun in a lock-box, I presume? |
its hidden, with a trigger lock. ammunition is hidden, but in the same room. Plus, as someone said earlier, education is key. All my family, not just the children, are educated on the importance of safety of firearms and respect for them. I handle firearms frequently and I still am scared less whenever I pick up a loaded gun. |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tranceporter99
its hidden, with a trigger lock. ammunition is hidden, but in the same room. Plus, as someone said earlier, education is key. All my family, not just the children, are educated on the importance of safety of firearms and respect for them. I handle firearms frequently and I still am scared less whenever I pick up a loaded gun. |
I'm glad you're responsible with that.
The point I was going to raise though, is a different one. Let's say that this psycho rocked up to your house with the same intentions. Would you, realistically, be able to run off, grab your gun, load it, and run back to save the day? Would owning a gun really have helped you in this situation? |
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| Tranceporter99 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sushipunk
I'm glad you're responsible with that.
The point I was going to raise though, is a different one. Let's say that this psycho rocked up to your house with the same intentions. Would you, realistically, be able to run off, grab your gun, load it, and run back to save the day? Would owning a gun really have helped you in this situation? |
maybe, maybe not. I would rather have the option than not. I certainly don't wish for it to happen. I don't think anyone, or the ones I like to associate with I guess, that owns a gun with the intent to use it for self defense wishes that something would happen. I was a volunteer fire fighter and quit for one reason; every member of the department wished for fires to happen. I would regularly hear "yeah, it was great fun. went out there and threw around some water" and have a laugh about it. I don't think most gun owners want something to happen so they can use their weapon. If you look hard enough, you'll find most of these people are self starers. People who are more reliant on themselves than anyone else. Freedom I guess. I don't care if you, or anyone else, protects themselves with a firearm. Owning a firearm is an inalienable right and in that becomes a choice. I just plead with people to not take that choice, that right, from me. That's the only reason I ever get into these discussions with people. |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tranceporter99
maybe, maybe not. I would rather have the option than not. I certainly don't wish for it to happen. I don't think anyone, or the ones I like to associate with I guess, that owns a gun with the intent to use it for self defense wishes that something would happen. I was a volunteer fire fighter and quit for one reason; every member of the department wished for fires to happen. I would regularly hear "yeah, it was great fun. went out there and threw around some water" and have a laugh about it. I don't think most gun owners want something to happen so they can use their weapon. If you look hard enough, you'll find most of these people are self starers. People who are more reliant on themselves than anyone else. Freedom I guess. I don't care if you, or anyone else, protects themselves with a firearm. Owning a firearm is an inalienable right and in that becomes a choice. I just plead with people to not take that choice, that right, from me. That's the only reason I ever get into these discussions with people. |
I do understand your view, but I just can't agree with it.
I don't own a gun. I live in a country where it's illegal to have one. I walk around, though, with absolutely no fear of being shot. Not ever. This is because I know that it would be really, really unlikely for anyone around me to be carrying one themselves.
If you take away the guns, or the 'right' to own one, then you take away most of the need for owning a gun in the first place. I also believe that your (few hundred year old) second amendment is somewhat outdated, and doesn't have any real relevance in today's society, but that's just my opinion.
Of course there are going to be people that can get their hands on guns, and considering the kinds of folks able to get their hands on illegal weapons, and with the social circles they keep, they're likely to be the types that would actually want to use them for nasty . It's perhaps not a perfect solution. But, it certainly makes it less likely for your regular Joe to snap one day and take out a bunch of school kids, or some people chilling at a Christmas party  |
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| mezzir |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira arms race.
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This is what I was going to say, thats what this seems to be. The main argument I seem to hear (here being no exception) is that if someone else has one, I want one to defend myself. Now, granted that may work, but wouldn't eliminating all guns be the better choice? Granted thats a bit optimistic as of course there will be some guns around, but by decreasing the supply and availability drastically, they wouldn't be as easy to acquire as they are today.
In my opinion, insisting on having guns is just dragging your feet and limiting us to treating a symptom of the problem, not that actual cause.
Also,
| quote: | | Originally posted by Tranceporter99 Owning a firearm is an inalienable right |
Say what? |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Yohan
hmmm...
either way, i'm a proponent that people should at least know how to use a gun. it teaches them to respect the weapon, just like whenever you learn to use a chainsaw or whatever potentially dangerous tool
it's like having a knife in your kitchen. you teach your kids not to play stabby stab with a knife.
education is the key
and i'd rather have the means to defend myself and my loves ones if it case i do get attacked, and not having to rely on cops to save my ass (by which time it'd be too damn late)
crimes WILL happen. my life, and that of my family is too darn important to leave to chance |
Yes..
But unfortunately human psychology is notoriously brittle.
People snap for the most seemingly random of reasons in ways that can not be rationally or emotionally explained, and are capable of doing anything.
The culture needs to mature, and we need to find ways to remove/limit the diseases that afflict man in modern times. |
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| DJ Shibby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Taranis
But guys if he hadn't had a gun he would have just killed 8 people with a knife or a baseball bat!
Clearly the solution is 'more' guns. If the 8 year old girl had had a gun on her she could have shot him first. We need to arm all the children asap. |
If you had read the original source you would know that the guy also manufactured a series of pressurized chemical explosives.
Much more effective than a gun. :) |
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| Vivid Boy |
| HAS HORRIBLE AS THIS IS. AND AS HORRIBLE AS IT IS TO WATCH ME TYPE IN CAPS BECAUSE I CANT SEEM TO GET MYSELF TO UNCLICK IT, IF I WERE TO GO ON A KILLING RAMPAGE I WOULD PROBABLY DRESS UP LIKE SOMETHING COOL TOO. |
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| gehzumteufel |
The last few posts seem to be reiterating what I had said earlier today. The excerpt is below.
| quote: | Originally posted by gehzumteufel
The less availability of guns, the less problems you have with them. Unavailable, the general criminal may or may not have them as they are exhorbantly expensive and cost prohibitive to ascertain. |
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