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Heathcare in your country (pg. 4)
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| idoru |
As far as I know, my country does its best to care for Heath bars. |
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| MrJiveBoJingles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
Nobody objects to the necessities for a stable, peaceful economy (roads, courts, police, maybe a library or two, etc) but this goes far beyond that. When you enshrine a limited material good as an entitlement, you necessarily enslave (to one degree or another) those expected to provide and/or pay for it. Are we entitled to be free from aggression? Do we have the right to live and trade without fear of theft or violence? Yes. But as the article says, those kind of rights impose no burden on others. Saying "don't attack me" doesn't infringe on my neighbor's life. Saying "feed me and pay my bills" certainly does. |
But I don't think that "right to earnings" in a modern economy is even a tenable concept apart from considering the role of government. The right itself, at least in the context of modern economies and infrastructure, is made possible by the presence of government. It is a social convention as much as any other "right," like the claimed right to health care. Rights are just part of the framework for shaping a social and political order, they do not stand outside it or precede it, so we cannot act as though they do and then judge that system by presuming the "rights" whose protection and codification the system makes possible. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
If the government gets it's way, it will implode much faster. Many people like to cry "change..change!" and assume it will be for the better, but any first year econ student who has looked at the contents of this bill will be able to spot the seeds of disaster. Mark my words..The mandates placed on insurance companies by the current legislation GUARANTEE the collapse and bankruptcy of every private health insurance company within a decade. There is simply no way companies can survive with the forced mandate to cover everything..to not charge more for high risk patients, etc. This whole plan really seems designed to bankrupt the insurance companies thereby ensuring a demand for outright nationalization later. |
You know? Honestly. I really think it would be a good idea if it did implode. They have done nothing but obscure EVERY single part of this debate with logical fallacy and syllogism and appeals to first-year-economy students and the ignorant theories about the economy they conceive of.
The bottom line is that, in Hawaii, they have state run health-care and their economy doesn't seem to be doing so badly. If the health-care industry could take care of itself, it would have done something about the ridiculous prices that drug companies charge for non-generics so that insurance companies weren't stuck paying exorbitant prices for someone's $10 copay and insurance companies wouldn't be allowed to get away with half the they pull when it comes to pre-existing conditions and the rates they charge, as well.
The whole reason we're having this conversation is because the system doesn't work - not even remotely. There are numerous examples I could come up with to describe how it's ed, but the bottom line is that invoking the logic of a first year economy student doesn't carry a lot of water, particularly when Alan Greenspan, a well-known, life-long economist has admitted that deregulation was a very, very, very, very bad idea; and that was his baby. |
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| Omega_Blue |
| quote: | Originally posted by idoru
As far as I know, my country does its best to care for Heath bars. |
oh man i LOVE heath bars |
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| Capitalizt |
| quote: | Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles
But I don't think that "right to earnings" in a modern economy is even a tenable concept apart from considering the role of government. The right itself, at least in the context of modern economies and infrastructure, is made possible by the presence of government. It is a social convention as much as any other "right," like the claimed right to health care. Rights are just part of the framework for shaping a social and political order, they do not stand outside it or precede it, so we cannot act as though they do and then judge that system by presuming the "rights" whose protection and codification the system makes possible. |
This is getting into that whole philosophical debate of where rights come from..the social contract, natural vs legal rights, John Locke, etc and I don't feel like creating a 50 page thread..so I'm gonna leave it here.;) |
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| idoru |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_Blue
oh man i LOVE heath bars |
Seriously overrated, imo. |
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| Lews |
| quote: | Originally posted by Capitalizt
This is getting into that whole philosophical debate of where rights come from..the social contract, natural vs legal rights, John Locke, etc and I don't feel like creating a 50 page thread..so I'm gonna leave it here.;) |
Locke's argument for rights is ing fail. |
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| Omega_Blue |
| quote: | Originally posted by idoru
Seriously overrated, imo. |
i'm going to have to disagree with you there, jake. imho, i feel that they're seriously underrated. like, when you or a friend feel like splurging on a chocolate bar one fine afternoon, how often do you/they decide on a heath? i'd assume rarely- i think people are more prone to pick up a bag of m&m's, some variation of the snickers bar, or maybe twix or butterfinger. the heath bar, as well as english toffee in general, is the underdog in a snickers-dominated world, my friend. for shame. |
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| Capitalizt |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
Locke's argument for rights is ing fail. |
Your mom is fail. |
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| idoru |
| quote: | Originally posted by Omega_Blue
i'm going to have to disagree with you there, jake. imho, i feel that they're seriously underrated. like, when you or a friend feel like splurging on a chocolate bar one fine afternoon, how often do you/they decide on a heath? i'd assume rarely- i think people are more prone to pick up a bag of m&m's, some variation of the snickers bar, or maybe twix or butterfinger. the heath bar, as well as english toffee in general, is the underdog in a snickers-dominated world, my friend. for shame. |
I've noticed the same thing, and for good reason: nobody picks it up because it's just not the greatest option. :p
But really, I'd consider the Heath bar to be the "cult classic" of candy bars. The populous doesn't "get it" but there's a tiny group of people that think it's the best thing since Mario's Kim Jong-Il thread. |
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| Capitalizt |
This is the only way to eat a heath bar.
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| jonSun |
Health care costs have been going up alot faster than inflation for years in this country. Many thousands have died because of it.
Im not sure universal health care is the best option for this country, but after years with the health of the american people being controlled by big (for profit) corporations, I think we should give universal and/or a public option a shot. |
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