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Heathcare in your country (pg. 8)
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| Capitalizt |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0...rm.html?showall
This is an admission that the numbers the Democrats submitted to the CBO were entirely false, and that they plan to make this bill a deficit expander in the spring. Deceit and hypocricy of the highest order. |
Pwnt. |
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| DJ Chunky |
The US has existed for a shorter time than every other civilized country and yet has risen above them all. The reason is that this country incentivized hard work more than any other and hard working entrepreneurs are attracted to it for this. The fastest way down the totem pole is to remove this incentive, which is exactly what will happen with socialized health care. From an entrepreneurs perspective, why live here if all thats going to happen when you work hard is more removed from your paycheck and more regulation as to your ideas?
Also, I don't sympathize for those who incur excessive health care bills under the current system. It is a choice to be uninsured, no a system flaw. It is $90/month for a high deductible, catastrophic insurance plan. The same people complaining about the insurance rates are the same ones dropping $50/night on alcohol/drugs. Shift your priorities and take some responsibility! |
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| Ridexer |
Let's see.
Option a) You pay for insurance, insurance company provides you and other insurance holders health care, pays for it's employees etc. and finally provides profit for stockholders. And they can still deny to pay for bills for some ridiculous pre-existing condition.
Option b) Share of your taxes is spent for public healthcare, and this provides you "free" healthcare, the moneys are spent on the healthcare and the professionals, and there is nobody leeching off the money.
So, if everyone would be living on either option a or option b, wich would you pick? |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ridexer
Let's see.
Option a) You pay for insurance, insurance company provides you and other insurance holders health care, pays for it's employees etc. and finally provides profit for stockholders. And they can still deny to pay for bills for some ridiculous pre-existing condition.
Option b) Share of your taxes is spent for public healthcare, and this provides you "free" healthcare, the moneys are spent on the healthcare and the professionals, and there is nobody leeching off the money.
So, if everyone would be living on either option a or option b, wich would you pick? |
Let's be honest here. "A" stands for "America" and "B" stands for "better", right? :p |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by Ridexer
Let's see.
Option a) You pay for insurance, insurance company provides you and other insurance holders health care, pays for it's employees etc. and finally provides profit for stockholders. And they can still deny to pay for bills for some ridiculous pre-existing condition.
Option b) Share of your taxes is spent for public healthcare, and this provides you "free" healthcare, the moneys are spent on the healthcare and the professionals, and there is nobody leeching off the money.
So, if everyone would be living on either option a or option b, wich would you pick? |
Both. We have it here.
Medicare is the national healthcare system which provides a safety net for all citizens, then the middle class and anyone else who can afford it also gets private health insurance. It works a treat.
Do I need Medicare for expensive medical costs? Not really, because my private insurance covers most of it and Medicare is used mostly for doctor visits and anything low cost, but I still have no issues with paying a levy on my yearly wage to make sure that those who can't afford private health insurance have at least a basic level of cover.
Why? Well for two reasons. One, because I'm a compassionate human being that would prefer to help others and two, because I realise that those people would cost the country significantly more if they didn't have that basic level of cover.
So you see, there doesn't need to be a choice between the two as they seem to be trying to establish. Their current system is fundamentally flawed and it seems their ideas for any sort of replacement system are fundamentally flawed as well. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Chunky
The US has existed for a shorter time than every other civilized country and yet has risen above them all. The reason is that this country incentivized hard work more than any other and hard working entrepreneurs are attracted to it for this. The fastest way down the totem pole is to remove this incentive, which is exactly what will happen with socialized health care. From an entrepreneurs perspective, why live here if all thats going to happen when you work hard is more removed from your paycheck and more regulation as to your ideas?
Also, I don't sympathize for those who incur excessive health care bills under the current system. It is a choice to be uninsured, no a system flaw. It is $90/month for a high deductible, catastrophic insurance plan. The same people complaining about the insurance rates are the same ones dropping $50/night on alcohol/drugs. Shift your priorities and take some responsibility! |
wow, you're really stupid. |
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| saluyamo |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Chunky
The US has existed for a shorter time than every other civilized country and yet has risen above them all. |
I'd comment about how in the past few decades quite a few countries have over taken America in a number of fields but alas I'm not from a civilised country. |
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| Lilith |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
http://www.politico.com/livepulse/0...rm.html?showall
This is an admission that the numbers the Democrats submitted to the CBO were entirely false, and that they plan to make this bill a deficit expander in the spring. Deceit and hypocricy of the highest order. |
Actually... its nothing.
March 19, 2010
Categories:
* House
UPDATE: Democrats challenge authenticity of ‘doc fix’ memo
An earlier post in this spot detailed what was purported by Republicans to be an internal Democratic memo regarding the upcoming health reform vote Sunday. Democratic leadership has challenged the authenticity of the memo. POLITICO has removed the memo and the details about it until we can absolutely verify the document’s origin.
So, you just here for the conversation or something The17sss? :) |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| i could watch lilith own 17sss' ass all day. |
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| Lilith |
Well, I don't want to seem like I'm picking on anyone but there's basically a lot of unsubstantiated crap floating around in a debate. Seriously, when was the last time we saw a political 'leaked memo' account for anything but a rather enthusiastic witch hunt that gets traced back to someone's cranky, butt-hurt intern that stole some letterhead and though the process of plausible deniability to their opposition boss, ended up taking the heat for it?
I'm not an economics student.
I'm just an ordinary, self made business woman, an extremely conservative business woman I might add and even I can see the merit of public health care reform, for the simple fact that you cannot afford your full time workers to be off the line for long periods of time. The costs of extended sick leave or absence from the workplace costs so much money its really just not funny.
For starters, I'd have to pay them sick leave
Secondly, I also have to get a temp or casual in which have higher rates of pay
Or alternatively, battle on with a person down and hope it doesn't sting us later for lack of productivity.
Then I'm out of pocket to the tune of paying sick leave + someone else's wages to cover them or bleeding out cash because a position is unattended and productivity, in any area of business will be far reduced. Having them away for a really long period of time because they cannot afford treatment or medication is UNACCEPTABLE in a developed country.
Thats simply at the micro-level
Ramp it up to the macro level of a country overall and you're talking big numbers of inefficiency and I don't see why I should have to buy health care for staff when its already their own prerogative to get it for themselves or have it supplied by their community. As an employer its only my responsibility to maintain a safe working environment and the US runs a real risk of becoming a backwater anachronism if they don't pull their act together. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
Actually... its nothing.
UPDATE: Democrats challenge authenticity of ‘doc fix’ memo
An earlier post in this spot detailed what was purported by Republicans to be an internal Democratic memo regarding the upcoming health reform vote Sunday. Democratic leadership has challenged the authenticity of the memo. POLITICO has removed the memo and the details about it until we can absolutely verify the document’s origin.
So, you just here for the conversation or something The17sss? :) |
It hasn't been retracted... just nervous Democrats saying, "Memo? What memo?" The Politico is a left leaning entity anyway... I wasn't posting something from a source like Ann Coulter. Either way the whole thing is going to be a financial disaster and everyone knows it. The "doc fix" is going to be a separate thing passed later, which will add hundreds of billions on to this bull CBO score.
The CBO cost estimates also don't take into account the 10+ million people who will fully participate in the health exchanges and receive subsidies (depending upon income) automatically if the Schumer-Graham proposal became law. The key phrase is "an alien lawfully present in the United States," which gives a person all the benefits of the exchanges as a "qualified individual"... in other words, illegal aliens automatically would be turned into legal aliens from the moment they enter the system. They may have to wait for "lawful permanent residence" but they would not be here illegally anymore. No idea what the additional costs of this will be, but you know it will be immense.
http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/...t-as-passed.pdf
And how about another hidden cost uncovered by the CBO today about the additional $50 billion just to administer this thing!? ----> http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/do...ions_HR3590.pdf
| quote: | I'm just an ordinary, self made business woman, an extremely conservative business woman I might add and even I can see the merit of public health care reform, for the simple fact that you cannot afford your full time workers to be off the line for long periods of time. The costs of extended sick leave or absence from the workplace costs so much money its really just not funny.
Thats simply at the micro-level Ramp it up to the macro level of a country overall and you're talking big numbers of inefficiency and I don't see why I should have to buy health care for staff when its already their own prerogative to get it for themselves or have it supplied by their community. |
Well, as a self made business owner too, I understand what you're saying completely. And I agree that we need reform... just not this Statist boondoggle designed to decimate the insurance industry that's being shoved down our throats. Of course business owners would like to not pay for insurance costs; but is the model that is leading to rationing and at the breaking point in so many other countries really the only alternative? I noticed you speak of inefficiency- which is why I'm dumbfounded that as a conservative business owner in this country, you believe our government will make this process more efficient and cost effective, especially when you consider 157 new government agencies are going to be created here. If you think dealing with insurance companies is frustrating, what's it going to be like dealing with buerecrats instead?
ps- no comment on the post/chart of how Medicare (aka government insurance) has denied more claims in raw number and overall percentage than any private insurance company? You think that's going to go in reverse now?
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
i could watch lilith own 17sss' ass all day. |
:stongue: why don't you just ask her if you can stick your tongue in her butt already? |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
boondoggle |
I'm going to make a conscious effort to use that word in at least 3 conversations in the coming week.
Will they mock me? :p |
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