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Canada getting some new toys (pg. 9)
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| hardcore trancer |
| WASTE OF MONEY, seriously Haper needs to stop going crazy with our money to buy toys. 1 Billion for this 16 billion for that, it just doesnt seem to stop.:o |
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| exraver |
How? The Deadly Question for the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter
The depicted Su-35S is expected to be the last Flanker variant to be mass produced before the PAK-FA enters full rate production (KnAAPO image).
How will the intended 2,443 F-35s JSF impose air dominance for the USA and its Allies? That is the question to ask.
Search the Internet for material on the JSF and you will find terabyte after terabyte of articles, pictures, Powerpoint presentations, PDFs, tables and laudatory Blogs. And how much relates to how the JSF will deliver this capability? You will find assertions and statement such as ‘six times better Relative Loss Exchange Ratio than legacy aircraft’ [1], or ‘The operational arguments focus on combat effectiveness against top foreign fighter aircraft such as the Russian Su-27 and MiG-29. Lockheed Martin and USAF analysts put the loss-exchange ratio at 30-1 for the F-22, 3-1 for the F-35 and 1-1 or less for the F-15, F/A-18 and F-16’[2].
And how will the F-35 JSF perform, not against truly obsolete legacy aircraft like the Su-27SK and the MiG-29, but against modern fighters like the Su-35S? We can answer these questions with a head-to-head analysis of the two aircraft.
Air combat is a complex mix of art, science and engineering. Aircraft performance, weapons performance, networked sensors and pilot skill all contribute to the final Loss Exchange Ratio (LER). The only simplification is that aircraft approach, engage in combat and the survivors depart. This activity can be examined in a ‘kill-chain’ with the following stages: ‘Detect-Identify-Engage-Disengage-Destroy’ (DIED2).
Here is a scenario. In the ‘Blue’ corner, we have a flight of four F-35A JSFs, each armed with four AIM-120D Beyond Visual Range (BVR) missiles and the 25 mm GD ATP GAU-22/A cannon. No additional weapons or fuel are carried, because these would compromise the JSFs' “low observability” to X-Band radar. In the ‘Red’ corner, we have a flight of four Su-35S, each armed with four RVV-SD Active Radar Seeker BVR Missiles, four RVV-SD Infra-Red (IR) Seeker BVR missiles, two RVV-MD Within Visual Range (WVR) missiles, the 30mm GSh-301 cannon, KNIRTI SAP-518 jammers on the wingtips and a 6,000 litre conformal tank between the engines. Each aircraft has the full range of sensors and countermeasures.
At the end of the kill-chain, it seems, prima facie, that the Su-35S has all the ‘right stuff’ for air combat, while the F-35 JSF does not. This should come as no surprise, because the design brief for the JSF was that the F-22A would ‘sanitise’ airspace and deliver air dominance, making it safe for the Joint STRIKE Fighter to deliver follow-up strike capabilities.
Now that the F-22A Raptor program is being terminated with insufficient aircraft to deliver air dominance, this role is now being assigned to the F-35 JSF.
Rest of the article: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-NOTAM-05072010-1.html
Given the intent of the OSD to employ the F-35 Joint Strike fighter as an air dominance fighter, the fundamental and unanswered question is: HOW?
Postscript: Please don’t mention the PAK-FA. HA HA HA
More taxes wasted on garbage. |
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| hardcore trancer |
| We really should stop giving away blank cheque's to Mr. Harper. He is clearly out of control and needs to be contained. Canada can do so much better with this amount of money but too bad this government doesn’t seem to get its priorities straight... |
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| Sentinal |
| I for one am glad we are getting these planes. Harpers got it right. Invest in defence. We need it. Such a massive country with rich natural resources. We would be fools to continue to rely on the US as we are our own damn country. Better spent on fighter planes than a botched gun regestry thank you Liberals. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by Sentinal
I for one am glad we are getting these planes. Harpers got it right. Invest in defence. We need it. Such a massive country with rich natural resources. We would be fools to continue to rely on the US as we are our own damn country. Better spent on fighter planes than a botched gun regestry thank you Liberals. |
although I agree we need new planes...I don't think he went about it the right way. You don't invest in something like this without the proper due diligence and I don't think Harper has done his due diligence in this. |
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| Jayx1 |
| time to rebuild our military after decades of neglect. Of course the left wing is against it. But what will they do when we are suddenly tossed out of NATO for not being able to contribute our share? |
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| hardcore trancer |
Funny how this gov't loves spending $ for the enevitable when it applies to war & oil, but not climate change or humanitarian concern.
How about NOT buying those jets and instead use the money to 'defeat' the 'challenges' of chronic illnesses/disease, feeding the population, alternative clean power sources etc. Would it not be wiser to use the funds for research in the fields of nanotechnology, genetics, stem-cell research and alternative eco-friendly power sources than for military expenditures which will ultimately bankrupt the world? I guess thats all hippie talk these days... |
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| Magnetonium |
I think Canadian airforce is in excellent situation today, the older fighter jets that Canada has right now are doing an excellent job ... considering their very limited use anyway.
What Canada does need, and urgently, is a couple billion in subs, ships, patrol boats to protect our vast open waters, and to assert Canadian jurisdiction over the northern lands. Ice caps are melting, northern passage is opening up - and even the Russian subs have been spotted in Canadian waters. Trash has been dumped, oil/gas leaked, and noone out there to enforce anything.
I dont think Harper gives a about that. |
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| Jayx1 |
| quote: | Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Funny how this gov't loves spending $ for the enevitable when it applies to war & oil, but not climate change or humanitarian concern.
How about NOT buying those jets and instead use the money to 'defeat' the 'challenges' of chronic illnesses/disease, feeding the population, alternative clean power sources etc. Would it not be wiser to use the funds for research in the fields of nanotechnology, genetics, stem-cell research and alternative eco-friendly power sources than for military expenditures which will ultimately bankrupt the world? I guess thats all hippie talk these days... |
you are absolutely correct. It would be better spent on those things....
..........if human nature allowed us to only have to think about those things and not worry about aggression. But none of those things would matter at all to you if we were invaded and occupied by some foreign dictatorship, i can promise u that! And dont even get me started on "climate change". Being revealed as the farce that it is more and more day by day. |
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| exraver |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
What Canada does need, and urgently, is a couple billion in subs, ships, patrol boats to protect our vast open waters, and to assert Canadian jurisdiction over the northern lands. Ice caps are melting, northern passage is opening up - and even the Russian subs have been spotted in Canadian waters. Trash has been dumped, oil/gas leaked, and noone out there to enforce anything.
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Check this out, with military budget only twice as big as Canadian, russians have sometimes 10 to 20 or even 30 times more active weaponry.
Couple billions won't do with prices you're paying here for R&D, hourly salaries and so on.
And bunch of overpriced planes are not gonna help either.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison.asp
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| Shaya007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jayx1
you are absolutely correct. It would be better spent on those things....
..........if human nature allowed us to only have to think about those things and not worry about aggression. But none of those things would matter at all to you if we were invaded and occupied by some foreign dictatorship, i can promise u that! And dont even get me started on "climate change". Being revealed as the farce that it is more and more day by day. |
I bet you this one's going to invade Alaska at one point in her life time thinking it's still Canada
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| Yohan |
| quote: | Originally posted by exraver
Check this out, with military budget only twice as big as Canadian, russians have sometimes 10 to 20 or even 30 times more active weaponry.
Couple billions won't do with prices you're paying here for R&D, hourly salaries and so on.
And bunch of overpriced planes are not gonna help either.
http://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison.asp
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misleading, considering russians have conscription and pay their soldiers wages. IIRC, Canada spends about 50% of its budget on personnel salaries |
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