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Wikileaks about to stir sh!t up again... and Julian Assange - Asshat or Hero? (pg. 30)
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| Moongoose |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
From Assange:
His goal is not to be transparent, his goal is to hurt the US. He has said it his ing self.
If the people of the US wanted more transparent government then its up to the citizens of the US to do it. We should not have our internal policy dictated to us from outside sources, especially those that are individuals with delusional and destructive motives. |
1.st: you realise that your argument is basically rendered invalid by the very quote you posted in support of it right?
2.nd: Your internal policies are not directed by outside cources. Forgive me while i step away for a second to rupture some probably vital organ from laughing to hard. In case you havent been following your politics closely, or at all for that matter your politics ARE dictated by outside sources and have been for a while now. If you havent noticed this before now you are either incredibly ignorant of the very things you acuse everybody else of or have been living off the planet for the past couple of decades. And the latter isnt that likely of an option.
Also what about the rights of people in the countries that had shady dealings with the us. Dont we have the right to know what stupid stuff our governments were up to? Before you come up with some ridiculous reason that we dont, we actually do. It just so happens that are side has much better security it seems so leaks from broken down places as the us are welcome. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moongoose
1.st: you realise that your argument is basically rendered invalid by the very quote you posted in support of it right?
2.nd: Your internal policies are not directed by outside cources. Forgive me while i step away for a second to rupture some probably vital organ from laughing to hard. In case you havent been following your politics closely, or at all for that matter your politics ARE dictated by outside sources and have been for a while now. If you havent noticed this before now you are either incredibly ignorant of the very things you acuse everybody else of or have been living off the planet for the past couple of decades. And the latter isnt that likely of an option.
Also what about the rights of people in the countries that had shady dealings with the us. Dont we have the right to know what stupid stuff our governments were up to? Before you come up with some ridiculous reason that we dont, we actually do. It just so happens that are side has much better security it seems so leaks from broken down places as the us are welcome. |
What outside sources? Which foreign (I say again FOREIGN) companies and countries direct what the US does internally?
Also, we have the right to do what the we want with other countries because like it or not we are still the #1 power in the world. If you don't like it, come and fight us. Thats what Assange is doing. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| Oh and please address the nuke issue I stated. You want everyone to know how to make really powerful, really small nuclear weapons? :conf: |
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| EgosXII |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Oh and please address the nuke issue I stated. You want everyone to know how to make really powerful, really small nuclear weapons? :conf: |
1: stop with the whole internal/external thing'
you're 100% fine with the US doing anything they want in everyone else's country, and having horribly dangerous weapons: What gives the US the right, over all other states?
2: State is different than individual, don't be THAT retarded. The US was founded on FREEDOM OF INFORMATION, and transparent government. Surely you know more about america since you live there so you must know about how your country was formed......??? coming from british rule etc???
3. | quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
The success of the state is the success of the people.
Do you understand that?
Where are we entitled to freedom to know everything our government does? Tell me, since you seem so scholarly on the constitution of a country you do not even live in.
We are entitled to the freedom of speech, to the freedom of expression and to not be persecuted for those things. We as CITIZENS are entitled to that. Assange is not a citizen of the United States.
He is a foreign national who's stated goal is the collapse of the United States. If you asked Assange if governments should be allowed to keep secrets and keeping secrets are vital to their survival he would agree. He knows it is vital, thats why he is doing this, because it will hurt the US, it will make it less powerful and it will make it a weaker player in the world. |
He sent the documents relating to military to the US to clear before posting them. Nothing has been released which is overly confidential or could possibly lead to the downfall of the government. You're being a paranoid sook if you think otherwise, and clearly havn't read any of the documents... have you, or have you just read the hype?
4. if assange can't talk about the US cause he's not american, why can america attack him when he's not american: Is it stay to your own country or not??? Assange is only doing what the US does. If the US was isolationist and stopped interfering with every country i bet there wouldn't be a wikileaks. Since they do, there is, and it is justified! you can't have it both ways, stay out of peoples business, or have them come into yours.
5. This argument is stupid at this point: You're clearly incapable of reading, or hearing any arguments raised against you: everything you say is riddled with paradoxes and fallacious logic... |
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| EgosXII |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
I hate to bust out the child pornography argument, but...
If someone takes a picture of a child being raped or molested and then gives it to someone else and that person spreads it all over should that person be guilty of a crime?
In the end it is just information right? Its not harmful to anyone anymore, the crime could have taken place decades ago... Its just information now. Where do you place the boundaries on what information deserves privacy? |
seriously lol, showing your complete lack of understanding of the issue again:
1: in this case, BOTH people are wrong. the person who CREATED the problem is still worse, because they created the problem. if you got rid of distribution there would have still been a serious crime! the guy spreading it makes more people involved, but the perpetration of the original act is what made the continuation of the act possible.
2: Leaking documents is not spreading the crime. it is letting the people who should KNOW about the crime find out about it.
it is the equivalent of bringing the picture to the police, and dobbing on the kiddy porn manufacturer (the US)
the US is meant to be a democracy: The people (thats you nou) don't know anything about their country, the country they are MEANT to be in control of! do you know what people power is, do you know what democracy is meant to be? its not meant to be vote once every 4 years (or don't, do you vote?) then sit back and pat yourself on the back claiming your an amazing member of a true democracy.
Assange is letting you plebs KNOW what the you're voting for, and what is going on!
of course you havn't read it, probably have no idea whats going on, but hey, thats american democracy right? the pride of the world. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by EgosXII
1: stop with the whole internal/external thing' |
So you think he should post nuclear secrets or not?
You also feel comfortable with him exposing things like Australian points of national significance or importance regarding your security?
If you want to live in a world where every countries vulnerabilities are on display, then thats fine, but just watch how quickly that world gets eaten up by the powerful.
Countries deserve the right to privacy to protect their citizens. If those citizens feel the need to change how their government handles secret data then its up them to get it released. Not some random dude on the internet who got a ton of papers from a pissed off employee. |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by EgosXII
the US is meant to be a democracy |
No, its actually a constitutional representative republic. Nice try though, thats the same argument the tea-party tries to use, but its a big fat failure there to.
The founders of this country realized that the people altogether would be unable to manage a government or a territory of this size via direct power from the people so they decided to make it a republic because it is much easier to deal with situations that way.
So yea. I know how my country works, I trust the politicians I elect them to do what is in my best interest. Sometimes they don't, sometimes what they do is illegal, and we take care of that when it does happen and is found out. Its not perfect, but it works pretty well. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
No, its actually a constitutional representative republic.
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A republic is merely a form of democracy. Americans don’t quite grasp this, because Americans are thickos. |
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| EgosXII |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
A republic is merely a form of democracy. Americans don’t quite grasp this, because Americans are thickos. |
lol yeah this pretty much seals the argument for me.. holy :stongue: :stongue: :stongue:
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
So you think he should post nuclear secrets or not?
You also feel comfortable with him exposing things like Australian points of national significance or importance regarding your security?
If you want to live in a world where every countries vulnerabilities are on display, then thats fine, but just watch how quickly that world gets eaten up by the powerful.
Countries deserve the right to privacy to protect their citizens. If those citizens feel the need to change how their government handles secret data then its up them to get it released. Not some random dude on the internet who got a ton of papers from a pissed off employee. |
he hasn't posted anything sensitive, did you read what i posted, and more importantly have you read any of the he's posted (as i asked before and others have asked before me)???
he's not posting anything remotely like that ffs.
and you saying the power-hungry will take over the world...?? that's what has happened :wtf: ... good work making predictions about what the US has already done :rolleyes:
its disturbing how little you know about what you're saying |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
A republic is merely a form of democracy. Americans don’t quite grasp this, because Americans are thickos. |
He kept saying like "true democracy" though.
Its not a true democracy. Its a republic. |
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| WhooCares |
| quote: | Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
If someone takes a picture of a child being raped or molested and then gives it to someone else and that person spreads it all over should that person be guilty of a crime?
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being in possession of child pr0n is ILLEGAL
totally different..so your flawed logic, is flawed..
New York Times vs The USA
| quote: | | New York Times Co. v. United States, 403 U.S. 713 (1971), was a United States Supreme Court per curiam decision. The ruling made it possible for the New York Times and Washington Post newspapers to publish the then-classified Pentagon Papers without risk of government censure. |
try again |
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| Joss Weatherby |
| quote: | Originally posted by WhooCares
being in possession of child pr0n is ILLEGAL
totally different..so your flawed logic, is flawed.. |
But why is it illegal?
It is just information, 1s and 0s, pixels on a screen, ink on paper... |
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