Originally posted by Lira
I'm not saying that because of the speed, I'm saying that because you're repeating yourself. I've answered each of your questions at least twice.
You didn't answer, you only provided vague reasons, never fully explaining why it should be illegal AFTER its given to the authorities.
Lira
quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
You didn't answer, you only provided vague reasons, never fully explaining why it should be illegal AFTER its given to the authorities.
Because there's no reason why you should be in possession of that information once you've forwarded it to those who can help - unless you're an actual consumer of this sort of product. And, if you are, then there's always the possibility that you may be inciting the production of more similar content (even if the correlation can't be proven, no one sells what people don't buy).
Do you want me to say that it should be legal to have CP in your computer if you've already done the right thing and sent all you have to the authorities? In a sense it actually is if you think about it: If you're a researcher and the material you have helps you diagnose and/or prevent future occurrences, then you could have a case and be granted access to the material. And it certainly isn't illegal for the authorities to have this sort of information. It's hard to argue for the possession of CP, nevertheless, if you've already taken all the necessary measures and you're no longer responsible. It's even baffling to imagine anyone would just want to keep this "just for the sake of it".
In this particular case, outlawing CP is a way to avoid creating loopholes through which possessors of CP forward some of their material to the authorities and keep the rest for their own entertainment (and then just claim you thought you had sent it all). You certainly can't be prosecuted for sending the material you have to the authorities, can you? So the "illegal" bit is actually more reasonable than it might seem at first.
Are we done with this argument now?
Halcyon+On+On
Allow me to send some straw-crows after the straw-man.
Manufacturing illegal weapons is obviously illegal. Possessing these weapons should not be illegal however, since the crime has already been committed, there's no use trying to control things now!
WhooCares
youre not helping :p
Joss Weatherby
quote:
Originally posted by Lira
Because there's no reason why you should be in possession of that information once you've forwarded it to those who can help - unless you're an actual consumer of this sort of product. And, if you are, then there's always the possibility that you may be inciting the production of more similar content (even if the correlation can't be proven, no one sells what people don't buy).
Do you want me to say that it should be legal to have CP in your computer if you've already done the right thing and sent all you have to the authorities? In a sense it actually is if you think about it: If you're a researcher and the material you have helps you diagnose and/or prevent future occurrences, then you could have a case and be granted access to the material. And it certainly isn't illegal for the authorities to have this sort of information. It's hard to argue for the possession of CP, nevertheless, if you've already taken all the necessary measures and you're no longer responsible. It's even baffling to imagine anyone would just want to keep this "just for the sake of it".
In this particular case, outlawing CP is a way to avoid creating loopholes through which possessors of CP forward some of their material to the authorities and keep the rest for their own entertainment (and then just claim you thought you had sent it all). You certainly can't be prosecuted for sending the material you have to the authorities, can you? So the "illegal" bit is actually more reasonable than it might seem at first.
Are we done with this argument now?
Actually in the US possession is illegal, even if you turn it into the authorities you are committing a crime by having it at all, even for a second.
You also state that incitement for further acts or other acts is a reason for people to not have access to it. Wouldn't that also be applicable to things that could get people killed. If distributing or possessing information that was obtained from an illegal act can result in someones life being ended would that not also be something that should be controlled?
Again though I ask, because you still haven't answered it, why is it wrong to keep CP. The laws aren't there just for loopholes, like I already mentioned, a vast majority of it was made in the 70s, turning it in to the authorities would be a waste of their time since all of that has been investigated and laid to rest (and not even investigated most likely because it was legally produced, but then the images became illegal).
So there has to be some moral standard on the possession and release and distribution of things like CP? Does this not apply to the case where peoples lives might be put in danger? Is murder more or less disgusting than child abuse if incitement is the reason to keep things like CP illegal?
WhooCares
Ron Paul : Lying is Not Patriotic
Silky Johnson
quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Actually in the US possession is illegal, even if you turn it into the authorities you are committing a crime by having it at all, even for a second.
You also state that incitement for further acts or other acts is a reason for people to not have access to it. Wouldn't that also be applicable to things that could get people killed. If distributing or possessing information that was obtained from an illegal act can result in someones life being ended would that not also be something that should be controlled?
Again though I ask, because you still haven't answered it, why is it wrong to keep CP. The laws aren't there just for loopholes, like I already mentioned, a vast majority of it was made in the 70s, turning it in to the authorities would be a waste of their time since all of that has been investigated and laid to rest (and not even investigated most likely because it was legally produced, but then the images became illegal).
So there has to be some moral standard on the possession and release and distribution of things like CP? Does this not apply to the case where peoples lives might be put in danger? Is murder more or less disgusting than child abuse if incitement is the reason to keep things like CP illegal?
Because possession perpetuates the crime, you idiot.
Halcyon+On+On
quote:
Originally posted by WhooCares
youre not helping :p
That implies anything could help him see the error of his ways at this point. :p
d-miurge
quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
Actually in the US possession is illegal, even if you turn it into the authorities you are committing a crime by having it at all, even for a second.
It is not a crime if you don't have the intention to collect and possess it, and if you delete it immediately and report to the police as said by Lira and others before. It would be the same case as an unsolicited confidential email.
quote:
Originally posted by Joss Weatherby
You also state that incitement for further acts or other acts is a reason for people to not have access to it. Wouldn't that also be applicable to things that could get people killed. If distributing or possessing information that was obtained from an illegal act can result in someones life being ended would that not also be something that should be controlled?
Again though I ask, because you still haven't answered it, why is it wrong to keep CP. The laws aren't there just for loopholes, like I already mentioned, a vast majority of it was made in the 70s, turning it in to the authorities would be a waste of their time since all of that has been investigated and laid to rest (and not even investigated most likely because it was legally produced, but then the images became illegal).
So there has to be some moral standard on the possession and release and distribution of things like CP? Does this not apply to the case where peoples lives might be put in danger? Is murder more or less disgusting than child abuse if incitement is the reason to keep things like CP illegal?
It's illegal to keep CP because it is a product of a crime, and by collecting it you encourage it.
quote:
"The obsessive nature of the collecting and the narrative or thematic links for collections, led to the building of social communities on the internet dedicated to extending these collections. Through these 'virtual communities' collectors are able to downgrade the content and abusive nature of the collections, see the children involved as objects rather than people, and their own behaviour as normal: It is an expression of 'love' for children rather than abuse."
Vernon Wanderer
quote:
Originally posted by Meat187
quote:
Originally posted by EddieZilker
:stongue:
+1
WhooCares
quote:
Originally posted by d-miurge
It's illegal to keep CP because it is a product of a crime, and by collecting it you encourage it.
/nou "BUT WHYYYYY IS IT ILLEGAL!!!??! its just 0's and 1's
:rolleyes:
hardcore trancer
quote:
Originally posted by WhooCares
Ron Paul : Lying is Not Patriotic
