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Some new Rise of Skywalker footage (pg. 9)
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Glad I finally got you to admit it. He did say both. Please explain again how he "didn't mean that" though :p |
In one of your multitudinous fictional previous career paths, were you by any chance OJ Simpson's defence attorney?
"If he said both, you must acquit!"
By the way, we "finally" established he said both right at the start, and we finally established it wasn't relevant at the exact same moment, leaving you chanting a mantra that has already been shot to pieces and set aflame, like a traumatised war veteran mumbling his dead buddy's name endlessly in a padded cell.
I'll just keep copying and pasting these from now on:
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
The fact PKC specifically wrote "nerd TV that achieved mainstream success while mostly remaining pretty good" shows he very deliberately differentiated between success and quality. |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Again: he specifically distinguished success from quality. Just because he simultaneously mentioned them doesn't mean he conflated them. |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Which makes a reply like "I think you're confusing success with good content" ing idiotic, doesn't it? It's completely obvious from what he wrote that PKC is not the kind of person who appeals to popularity, because his whole point was that these shows were exceptions by maintaining success and high quality simultaneously. |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Simply becuase the show really doesn't deserve thoughtful analysis. Do you not get that? I'm not going to express how it's a meditation on the horrors of war, or reflect on it's poignant narrative of family dysfunction |
You wouldn't be able to express any of those things even about something you do think is good. It's become abundantly apparent from years of watching you flailing around trying to argue that if you did ever have to submit a written essay for marking, it would come back lathered in red pen and with concerned recommendations for additional after-school tutoring.
But that aside, are you so stupid you don't know how to criticise a film or show you don't like? If you need a handy tutorial, I can refer to one of the many posts where I shredded Prometheus a new one. Prometheus wasn't a poignant commentary on anything except the dangers of letting Damon Lindelof rewrite your script at the last minute because the studio got cold feet, but it can still be entertainingly shredded for its many plot holes, implausible character motivations and hilariously underwritten creature concepts.
Like I said at the very start of the thread, it's practically an Internet sport these days to roast TV and films, and it's always entertaining to witness. If you want to do that: go ahead. But instead you've pissed thousands of words and a lot of wasted time on Google trying keep afloat a scuppered argument about sex scenes. And that's because you evidently don't know dick about good script writing. I mean, come on. You liked Prometheus. |
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| Lews |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Ugh. This is painful.
I said various elements were and their lackluster performance in other films was tangentially indicative that that the show did well despite it's actors and writing and production. |
Right, okay, so you're back to your initial claim.
Please, really explain this to me:
How does the lackluster box office performance of films involving certain GoT actors indicate anything about the quality of the writing on GoT?
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
yes, because certain episodes had more on average than others, but season 4 was a close second and certain season 5 episodes had more than season 4 with one episode nearly as much as the top count episode from season 1 and some more than certain episodes in S1. Understand yet? Sex scenes declined ever so slightly in 2 and 3, shot back up in 4 and was at nearly peak S1 levels. You should also realize that nudity was even more extreme so it's not a case of it gradually fading out as seasons went on - it fluctuated but by the middle point of the show it was just a smidgen behind the first season which was utterly loaded again |
Season 1 had 9 sex scenes, Season 4 had 6 sex scenes. 33% less is not exactly 'a close second' or 'a smidgen behind.'
Season 2 had 5 sex scenes, Season 3 had 4 sex scenes. A decrease of 44% and 56%. That is hardly an 'ever so slight' decline from the 9 of Season 1.
Regarding the nudity, according to Huffington Post:
'Taking violence into account as well as nudity, PA discovered that in the show’s early days, it was a constant battle between sex and violence as to which was featured more heavily.
However, the infamous Red Wedding [end of Season 3] was a turning point, after which violent content always outweighed the nudity in Game Of Thrones, with more than 3 hours and 9 minutes’ worth of violence in seven years, compared to 1 hour and 16 minutes of nudity.'
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Yes, they got in trouble for the rape scenes and toned it down in later series to just quasi lesbian and incest school boy fantasy fodder. And because the stars started refusing and they stopped subbing in porn stars, and body doubles with expensive CGI were apparently costing a fortune etc. |
Wait, so, did they tone it down, or did it fluctuate, or did they pull back, or did it just steadily increase from Season 1, or did they reduce it? You've claimed all those things now. Try to choose one stance, please.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Where the is this graph from and what was the timeline? because by season 5 viewing figures were in the 10's of millions, not 6m at peak. |
It depends on which viewers you count, I suppose. TV By The Numbers says that the Season 5 finale was viewed by 8.11 million, which was then the show's peak. The Season 6 finale had 8.89 million viewers, however.
https://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/sunday-cable-ratings-june-26-2016/
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Slither slither. As I thought.
You posted the favorable RT review - with graphic detailing plots - to attempt to show it had good plot lines but you're now trying to pull a psuedo u turn by saying "it was popular, I didn;t say it was good". |
Crazy how you can read my mind and know what I intended in posting that graphic!
No, I had thought my original post was quite clear, many people liked the plots, however you obviously did not understand that. You assumed I was arguing the plots were good, which is a statement I have never made in this thread, so I very simply explained my stance in the very next post. That is not slithering, you moronic muppet, it is being as straightforward as I can, because you are clearly mentally retarded.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Again, I've never said once it wasn't popular, so why were you posting up things that referenced good plot lines? Becuase others thought it was good? What ing point is that? I've said undevleoped manchildren lapped it up. |
You said it was popular because of the nudity:
'a large portion of the user base just watch it as an excuse to see big budget soft porn with dragons and CGI in weekly installments.'
'I think you spelled it out yourself in that last sentence (not meaning to insult whatsoever but I think people who are in to "swords and sorcery" will overlook just about anything to get their fix.
Focussed on are arse? The main star of the show gets graphically raped at the end of the first episode. She gets taught how to in a pseudo lesbian scene at the beginning of episode two to avoid the nightly rape. By 3 she's completely naked.
And you say I'm the one focussed on that? The show is basically about incest, rape and death, and not so much about plotlines.'
I am arguing it was popular because of the plot. How can you not grasp this?
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
You're not making any sense by pushing this, and it only makes sense because you tried to defend the plot aspect but had to reverse course when I pointed out that RT specifically and disproportionately gives support to commercial vehicle, such as Got. |
I never tried to defend the plot. I said that people liked the plot. That is all.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
You're slithering so much you've nearly left your cask on the forum. Again, why hold up RT favorable reviews specifically mentioning plot if you concede that RT is flawed and there's no argument that some low information consumers liked it? |
Because I am arguing that the average viewer found the plot good, as evidenced by RT mentioning the 'intricate storytelling,' the 'elegant storytelling,' the 'top quality drama,' and the 'meticulously-plotted character arcs.'
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Remember, when i said it was in terms of plotlines, you posted
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With a graphic from RT which glowed about the plotlines as if you had a gotcha, which backfired. |
I did not post that graphic in response to you saying it was in terms of plot. Look back at my post. I posted that graphic in response to you saying people watched it for the nudity. Because I have been arguing against that opinion of yours this entire time. I have said this multiple times, now. How can you possibly think I am arguing the plot was good? I have said nothing about the plot itself, I have only said that many people liked it. You are infuriating because you argue against opinions that people do not express, because you lack the basic mental skills to comprehend what people mean.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Then why bother at all with your argument? I've not wavered once from the fact it was hugely commercially successful and an ardent fanbase laps it up.
It's because you misspoke, thought RT backed you up but have been backpedaling ever since - you're trying to turn it in to some bizarrely watered down obfuscation of
"it was about plot lines.... er... but not good ones or bad ones. Nothing to do with quality, just saying people liked it and RT is my proof that plot lines were present. but not good or bad".
What the .
You know exactly what the , but will keep trying to make some shifty definition of what you previously said, that now makes no sense given the context of what you posted. |
I did not mispeak. I said that people watched for the plot lines, not the nudity. That is all I have ever claimed, Don Quixote. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I'm not sure I agree with that analysis at all. I found GoT to be absolute drivel and a large portion of the user base just watch it as an excuse to see big budget soft porn with dragons and CGI in weekly installments. |
this is just you projecting your discontent and assuming what others enjoyed about the series. granted, i'm sure a handful of people out there were attracted to the T&A, but actual, free porn is more available now than ever so i can't see how your critcism is credible.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
The acting was terrible, the costumes and makeup and hair laughable (I didn't realize they had peroxide hair bleach in the middle ages) and the plot lines were as convoluted as they were daft, and mainly concluded with that person dying. HBO poured 10's of millions in to production and marketing prior to it ever airing.
BSG I feel is a completely different beast and I think it's flawed to compare because it did well based on it's merits and outgrew the small network it was on. |
for the record, i'm not even really a GoT fan. it lacked the romanticism to balance its grit, the second last season was boring as and the final one was rushed and made missteps i'd be really pissed off about were i a fan of the books (only read the first one).
however, despite these issues it's still the best entry of its type in the genre and i respect the product and its ability to capture an audience beyond people like me while simultaneously keeping nerds entertained. like most shows the acting improved as it went and your use of "convoluted" here is a conflation of "complex" or involved. yeah it took effort to follow but that flies in the face of your & arse immediate gratification assertion. there were numerous narrative components compared to just about anything thanks to the show's heritage and its production values are the best seen (fantasy is a lot harder to present than space-based ship fights).
again, i referred to BSG in the same sentence as GoT because they were both must more series products in a genre typically ignored for lameness, and managed to garner an audience for nerds and non-nerds alike. you literally can't point to a better swords & sorcery product than GoT and it has had the biggest impact nerd TV has ever experienced (and i love BSG more than anything).
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
You missed the reboot part; AFAIK GoT had never been made in to a TV series. |
this is completely irrelevant to the points being discussed. GoT was a "reboot" of a song of ice and fire. that it was in book form has no bearing on the discussion.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
BSG was a hit TV show in the 80's, then got a sequel, and even the first "new" BSG was a two part miniseries that did so well the expanded to a TV show that ran for 8 years. |
it's called a pilot. it was pitched as a miniseries but was a pilot in every sense of the word.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Just about anyone growing up in the 80's in the USA (and I even remember it being rerun in the UK) knew BSG and it was prime time TV entertainment at the time - it was kinda poor mans star wars on TV, whereas I'd only vaguely come across the GoT books by the time the series aired. I'm sure D&D geeks were all over those books but it pales in comparison to a multi year hit tv show in terms of IP. |
this is complete nonsense. BSG was so "popular" it lasted 1 season, a re-hash and a couple of movies after 25 years before BSG 2.0. aSoI&F has sold 150 million copies. yeah, likely lower when the TV series started but a much more established consumer group all the same.
| quote: |
A Song of Ice and Fire will become the most popular fantasy series published since J.R.R Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings |
https://winteriscoming.net/2018/07/...-wheel-of-time/
though i really don't know what relevance this has to the topic at hand, i just have a compulsion to correct.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I think you spelled it out yourself in that last sentence (not meaning to insult whatsoever but I think people who are in to "swords and sorcery" will overlook just about anything to get their fix. |
mate, you've seen star wars and you rated prometheus. by which metric can you exclude yourself from the rest of the manchildren?
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Focussed on are arse? The main star of the show gets graphically raped at the end of the first episode. She gets taught how to in a pseudo lesbian scene at the beginning of episode two to avoid the nightly rape. By 3 she's completely naked. |
yeah, you are focused on that because it's all you've appeared to gather from the show. yes, the world is awful and there's much rape and pillage and violence. that doesn't make rape or nudity the point of the show.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
And you say I'm the one focussed on that? The show is basically about incest, rape and death, and not so much about plotlines. |
given your distaste i doubt you followed it long enough to grasp the plotlines.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I get I'm banging my head against a wall with a fan because I've been down this road before - people who love all that crap just can't see past how bad it actually is. |
as per the above, im not even really a fan (at least, not compared to BSG or B5 for example). i also accept the quality and influence of lord of the rings while being rather ambivalent. you're just talking nonsense.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
I don't agree that Solo was cut from that same cloth at all, It was a CGI fest. Yeah, better than say the Clone wars ls but that's kinda a low bar. The newer movies are certainly better in aesthetics because of things like location filming as opposed to all green-screen but I'm making a specific point about solo, which bizarrely was one of the most expensive movies ever made. |
solo may be worse than rogue or 7/8, but as you say it's still better in this regard than the prequels, which was my point.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
The point you keep missing is that people hold up the "success" of GoT as some kind of measure of it's quality and as I'm trying to bash unsuccessfully in to your skull is that they are absolutely mutually exclusive....and all this while PKC is still saying that Got was "one of the best Swords and Sorcery" epics" of all time while simultaneously referencing how well it did. |
i hope i've explained it simply enough for you to realise it's not about how many people that tuned in but the type of people that did- those thoroughly disinterested in scfi/fantasy and the show did so without offending the nerd collective.
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
It's production values were terrible... |
hahahahahaha. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lews
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:stongue::stongue: that's hilarious. wtf did we do before the internets!? |
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| Zoso |
Even though it was totally unintentional, I feel like my work here is done. :o
This is some lively for the COR these days. Back in the day, this thread would have been on page 4 of the "older" threads just 4 hours after being started. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| It's actually so much better without the added contributions of the peanut gallery. No distractions, just RANN getting owned, over and over again. |
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| Hides in Shadow |
| You heard right Ranny, bow down to your master(s), cooley. Now kiss my converse. |
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| Zoso |
| quote: | Originally posted by Zak McKracken
can i see? |
Only on TA 1.0 when viewed in IE6 on Windows XP SP1. |
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| OrangestO |
Wow, that's incredible. I never gave Stars Wars a chance. I actually loathe the cult-like following it has. But after seeing this, I might finally give it a shot with a newfound appreciation.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You're like a algorithm that randomly returns nuggets of crap you found on Google based on a key word index of whatever's being discussed. |
:stongue:
Ironically, I can picture Russian troll bots using this line everywhere on FB. |
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| Jon_Snow |
| Wow, I’m not fluent in moron but you fantasy man-children like to bicker. No one cares about your opinions except other fan boys who are only interested in arguing to prove they’re smarter. The rest of us watch movies and listen to music for enjoyment. I have to admit it’s pretty amusing that despite all the work Rann puts into his positions he consistently comes out on the losing end. |
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| JEO |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jon_Snow
children |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jon_Snow
boys |
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| Silky Johnson |
| :stongue::stongue: |
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