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In search of romance (pg. 15)
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| jasmyn |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
For sure, it totally happens both ways. I think these people are probably dishonest in general and not just in relationships, and being dishonest in any sense is, well, not a good thing.
My only question is - and I don't mean to sound too one-sided about this - but when a guy will say anything to get a girl into bed, his motivation is clear and he knows what he's doing. Like the whole thing is kind of calculated in a way (which I'm not saying is a good thing). But I never see guys do what I see some girls do, which is pretend to like guys that they're really not interested in at all. And I mean, they'll carry this on for days, weeks, even months, before finally blowing the guy off without any warning or explanation (if they're really pressured, they'll sometimes come up with some lame excuse).
Why? What does this accomplish? I think that's just as mean if not meaner than guys lying for sex, because it drags on for soooo long, and finding out that someone's been lying for 2 months or 2 years is a lot worse than finding out they've been lying for 2 weeks. I think that's part of the reason why some guys just totally refuse to *wait* for sex in a relationship, because they have a genuine concern for this type of thing happening. (I'm not one of those guys and I totally HAVE to wait for that, but I don't find it hard to understand the guys who won't).
Any thoughts on that?
(Edit: this is a little off topic I guess but I think it does tie into the whole romance concept... I think we men really need to know when we're being romantic and when we're just fighting for a lost cause, and the only way for us to know and not get hurt is either for us to assume the worst or for the girls to stop beating around the bush so often!) |
in terms of pretending to like a guy whom i am not interested in .. speaking from my own experience, i go out with a person just to get to know them better, no strings attached. if the guy, miscontrues my interest as being one of more than friends, then that's not my problem. some guys have some expectations of things from just one date. maybe they are still young and naive, who knows? you need to learn to just ask and talk about everything before assuming that you may be in a relationship.
but anyways, i agree with you that it is wrong to lead people on and let them think that things can be progressing within a relationship. i guess it all boils down to the fact that no one really wants to be alone. it's been ingrained in our heads since we were young that you need to find the right person to live your life with and that you will eventually marry them and have kids of your own. so then it leads to the idea that some girls need to feel like they are in some sort of a relationship and that they are in some way reaching that goal.
all in all, i think the most important thing in a relationship is honesty and being able to talk to your significant other openly about absolutely anything, without fear of hurting the other person's feelings. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by jasmyn
in terms of pretending to like a guy whom i am not interested in .. speaking from my own experience, i go out with a person just to get to know them better, no strings attached. if the guy, miscontrues my interest as being one of more than friends, then that's not my problem. some guys have some expectations of things from just one date. maybe they are still young and naive, who knows? you need to learn to just ask and talk about everything before assuming that you may be in a relationship. |
Okay - maybe it sounds like a silly question - but do you think a guy-girl relationship that is "just friends" is equivalent to the normal guy-guy or girl-girl "friends" relationships? That is to say, even if there is nothing actually serious between a guy and a girl, does that mean that I can treat her like my guy friends and she can treat me like her girl friends?
I guess the most obvious example would be lusting after other "hot" or "cute" guys/girls while talking or hanging out, which to me has always been kind of a taboo. I don't hit on or talk about other girls I'm interested in when I'm with a "female friend", even if I'm not attracted to the friend at all, because I've just always felt that to be rude, and I don't like having that done to me either.
(Note that this doesn't apply to people who already have a boyfriend/girlfriend... just the single ones who make a show to their "friends" of who else they're currently chasing.)
| quote: | | all in all, i think the most important thing in a relationship is honesty and being able to talk to your significant other openly about absolutely anything, without fear of hurting the other person's feelings. |
Agreed, 100%! Especially if I'm annoyed or upset about something, I think I should be able to mention it without getting into a whole drama scene about it.
Being able to listen, of course, is just as important as being able to talk. :)
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| MysticStardust |
| quote: | But I never see guys do what I see some girls do, which is pretend to like guys that they're really not interested in at all. And I mean, they'll carry this on for days, weeks, even months, before finally blowing the guy off without any warning or explanation (if they're really pressured, they'll sometimes come up with some lame excuse).
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Hmm I've done that so many times,:rolleyes: but its freaking hard to break up with a person.....so you keep post poning it. I'll do it...tommorow. Tommorw turns into next week, next month etc. Guys don't care about girls' feelings. They just say you're ugly get the hell away from me:rolleyes: . Yes, we're not leading anyone on but hello!! they're kind of rude about it. Girls(well in my case) usually don't want to hurt the guys' feelings so they keep puting it till next day. Untill finally when they cant take it anymore so they blow up and tell the guy they're over, which for the guy is out of the blue, but not for the girl. So in a way while trying not to hurt guy's feelings we end up hurting them even more. Kind of ironic, but from the beginning we do have the best intentions in mind. Guys just say like it is..very straight forward and they dont care if they hurt someone's feelings............:rolleyes:
Well thats my lil theory:o :D |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by MysticStardust
Hmm I've done that so many times,:rolleyes: but its freaking hard to break up with a person.....so you keep post poning it. I'll do it...tommorow. Tommorw turns into next week, next month etc. Guys don't care about girls' feelings. They just say you're ugly get the hell away from me:rolleyes: . Yes, we're not leading anyone on but hello!! they're kind of rude about it. Girls(well in my case) usually don't want to hurt the guys' feelings so they keep puting it till next day. Untill finally when they cant take it anymore so they blow up and tell the guy they're over, which for the guy is out of the blue, but not for the girl. So in a way while trying not to hurt guy's feelings we end up hurting them even more. Kind of ironic, but from the beginning we do have the best intentions in mind. Guys just say like it is..very straight forward and they dont care if they hurt someone's feelings............:rolleyes:
Well thats my lil theory:o :D |
Interesting "theory", complete with more blanket generalizations about guys I see... :rolleyes:
As you said yourself though, you end up hurting people a lot more when you do what you do. Guys who are blunt and say "no" right off the bat are hurting you a LOT, a LOT less in the long run. Besides, be honest, how often are YOU the one to ask THEM out anyway? :p
I don't know if I'm inclined to believe that you're trying not to hurt the guy's feelings here. That's an easy copout, but girls who are more honest than you have already told me that it's more out of insecurity and immaturity that they string the guy along for so long, and NOT out of empathy or respect for anyone else's feelings.
Incidentally, I don't say "you're ugly get the hell away from me" and I have no idea what kind of guys you hang around to hear that. If I'm totally unattracted to the person then I might say "I have a girlfriend" or "I'm not ready for anyone new right now", and that is ONLY if she actually asks me out, if it's just a friendly chat then it really doesn't matter what she looks like. Some of those "ugly" ones turn out to be great friends and I really like to hang around them. Of course, that's all we would ever be, and I would not ever flirt or pretend to be physically attracted. |
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| -=M=- |
| most romantic place for lovemaking is on a golf course - something about the greens |
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| Orbax |
| Mystic, did i not tell you the :rolleyes: pisses people off? |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orbax
Mystic, did i not tell you the :rolleyes: pisses people off? |
But the use of the :rolleyes: proves so conclusively that she is superior to the people she's arguing against and superior to men in general! How could you expect her to converse without it!? |
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| Mr. Pink |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
It's just a meaningless rationalization for inherently irrational emotions if you ask me. But if someone could provide me with an objective standard for what constitutes "romance" and show how it applies to every woman, I'd be happy to change my opinion. |
Don't get all nihilistic on us boy.
meaningless rationalization?
inherently irrational emotions?
de fuk?
how is caring for some one, and giving some love inherently irrational?
If you're going to give me nietzche bull on mordernity, and the will to power fukthat. We're not all living for ourselves on this planet. |
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| Lira |
I think my girlfriend and I have a very romantic relatioship, and I'm aware that I still fear doing many things because of bad experiences from the past. However, when I realise that she's a very mature person, and that I've changed a lot during the last couple of years (the fundamental part), I try to overcome against my fears and do something special to her - and she often surprises me too (otherwise the relationship would lead to eventual boredom and stagnation, I guess).
Hint: romance doesn't need to be taken to "epic proportions": usually less is more :) Oh, and by the way, sex and romance don't need to be separated. |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
What is "romance" anyway? It seems a lot of different women have different opinions about what exactly constitutes "romance." In my experience, if a woman likes you, then almost anything you do is "romantic," but if a woman is starting to get bored with her relationship with you, then no matter what you do you aren't "romantic" enough. |
hhmm... as long as you show you care (in a not obsessive way :D), it's romantic (like I said, often "less is more"). Romance is to a relationship what wind is to a windmill. It's a way to make it work: when the wind changes its direction and no longer keeps the windmill working, then the relationship collapses (there's still romance, but it just doesn't please the significant other anymore).
This is the hard part about relationship: the two people need to "sync" and respect the way everyone is changing (since we're all changing every minute), even if you need to change a bit as well (when it's not a harmful thing, obviously).
| quote: | Originally posted by Arbiter
It's just a meaningless rationalization for inherently irrational emotions if you ask me. But if someone could provide me with an objective standard for what constitutes "romance" and show how it applies to every woman, I'd be happy to change my opinion. |
The same way you can't have standards for "what a person is", since we're all different, you can't have standards for "what romance is", since all relationships are different :) |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Mr. Pink
Don't get all nihilistic on us boy.
meaningless rationalization?
inherently irrational emotions?
de fuk?
how is caring for some one, and giving some love inherently irrational?
If you're going to give me nietzche bull on mordernity, and the will to power fukthat. We're not all living for ourselves on this planet. |
To you, and to Lira as well, I think again that the whole point of this line of reasoning is that the lack of an objective definition (which did exist in the past, but doesn't anymore) leads to the potential for perverted misuse. And that is not to say that everyone misuses it, but many do, they use it to their advantage to excuse their actions and to manipulate others. Why? Because words like romance and love evoke positive emotions, so when you hear someone talking like that, you're inclined to listen and agree.
It's okay - well, it's inevitable - that it means something different from one person to another. But what's important, and often ignored, is that those people as individuals understand what they mean by it and don't change it at a whim just to get whatever they want.
Maturity is the operative word in all this, and I noticed you using that word Lira - that's a subjective term too but I think we can all agree that a really "mature" person is selfless enough not to do those things, and I think that's pretty much the key to making it work. You're lucky to have found someone who knows what she wants, because a lot of them really don't. |
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| Mr. Pink |
Ok so language relays meaning....
It also bastardizes thought.....
cuz you can't truly express in words what you truly feel...not exactly. Language is merely the attempt.
So can we all just say that expressions and essentially just being there, existing with that significant other as a collective unit, while at the same time maintaining individual lives is what we hope to accomplish? |
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