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Yet another American beheaded. This is the sickest thing ive ever seen. (pg. 17)
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| hardcore trancer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rodrico
first of all , the only reasons I've ever used the ole' "America used to be friends with Iraq" response, is for the fact that America was crying about the thousands of kurds he killed, when infact it was such a long time ago and no one did , and infact the weapons that were used belonged to America, France...
Secondly, what did America invade for? WMD? well since there wasnt any, and many soldiers are dying, shouldnt the bush administration get kicked outta office for causing an unjust war? , Clinton almost did for having a blowjob. Like always, no one says . Also, Iraq was less heavily armed to invade than Iran, and better strategically to attack from for Iran and many of the other middle eastern countries. Lets face it, the Bush administration thought that it would be much easier, but now theyre working hard to recover from the mess they caused, and get the chance to look that far ahead to see this coming.
And like I said, you cant say he has genocidal tendancies cause those crimes were done along time ago. And the Saudi's have just as much a violent country as Iraq was. So why didnt you America invade Saudi Arabia, also considering how many of the 9/11 terrorist were Saudi's, and some of it funded by terrorist Saudi's. Ah, thats right, the Bush's have close connections to the Saudi's. I wouldnt call the Bush's administration stupid, but Bush should come out saying sorry atleast, sorry for his mistakes, and the mistakes of his administration and his information. All together this is America's mistake and now have to deal with it, I hope every other countries does it best to make sure they feel that burden.
Last point, Communism is dead. You honestly believe that a true communism state can live on its own right? im sorry, but Communism is always doomed to failure with a world bent on living with capitalism. Capitalism just works better. The idea of Communism is nice and all, but it cant work.
I maybe a lefty, and may not like Bush, but I can always admit, hes good at turning around everything on everyone else and be void of the fact hes started an unjustified war and still say he can fight terrorism well (what has bush done really? other than trying to deny gay marriage, hah). His war policy is a farce, and even though Kerry will prolly be worse at it, i'd rather kick out that ****** Bush and his administration for theyre mistakes. |
AMEN |
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| Magnetonium |
That was evil and very sick, but I've seen worse ...
I've seen one thing in my life that was so disturbing and so sickening, that it made me puke on the spot.
How about witnessing an execution where someone's brains get blown out??? :whip: :whip: |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rodrico
Secondly, what did America invade for? |
I guess it's too much to hope for that anyone not use the word "invade" when it's clearly unwarranted, but in any case, how's this for an answer:
Stability.
In the middle east.
Think of it this way. Iran definitely has a nuclear weapons program. Saudis are playing games and manipulating both sides. Israel is taking heat left, right, and center. Afghanistan has already attacked the U.S. on a large scale and killed tens of thousands of innocent people. And most member states of the U.N. security council are throwing their hands up in the air, if not blatantly supporting dictatorships and terrorism.
There is already intense friction between the West and the Middle East. But think what would happen if the price of oil doubled. Tomorrow. Just try, for a New York Minute, to imagine what the global consequences of that would be. We're talking about a worldwide catastrophe here, we'd be lucky if the body count was less than a hundred times the body count from 9/11, and not just Americans either.
And right in the middle of it all, right on the front lines, there is one little country. This piss-poor dictatorship, who despite its Mickey Mouse status has already managed to piss off just about every civilized country on Mother Earth. Britain hates them. The USA hates them. Israel hates them. Even Iran ing hates them. And thousands of refugees from that country currently residing in Canada hate them with a passion. Most of Europe, except for France, doesn't necessarily hate them but is pretty goddamn afraid of any close contact with them.
That country is called Iraq.
Intelligence from every country with an intelligence division knows for certain that they had very dangerous weapons in the early 1990s. U.N. inspectors have been trying desperately for the past 10 years to prove that they got rid of those weapons but still haven't come up with any more evidence to show that Iraq got rid of its weapons than the USA has come up with to show that they hid them away or shipped them off.
The place is run by one of the most hostile dictators known to man, who already is personally responsible for tens of thousands of deaths. Citizens of his country are responsible for numerous terrorist attacks in the USA. There are suspected (although perhaps unproven) financial ties between them and just about every terrorist organization, including but not limited to Al Qaida, Hamas, and Hizbollah. And what's more, this dictator already has unfinished business with the good ole' USA - a scuffle with George Bush Sr. Yet somehow, in this vast cesspool of violence and hostility, before the USA made any move at all, there was already a growing movement of people who wanted change but just didn't know how to swing it. Many of these people fled to other countries (like Canada); some stayed at home, waiting for the opportunity to do something about the shambles that their country was in.
So there we were with the entire Middle East, and thus the entire world in peril. We can't attack Iran or Saudi Arabia from way over here in the West because millions of people would die if we tried. And the other middle Eastern countries are supposedly allies, even if they do hate America. And there we have a country with one of the scummiest dictators ever who does not deserve to live, let alone run a country. A dictator who, for the past 10 years, political leaders across the globe have been saying "We must do something about this evil dictator!" And a country which strategically is PRECISELY where the West needs an ally in the Middle East.
Not that the USA has any interest in "controlling" that region - your average American politician would prefer to wash his hands clean of anything that goes on down there. It's an oil exporter and nothing more. But only a fool would fail to realize that instability in the Middle East means instability everywhere, including the USA. To protect themselves, they HAVE to establish a presence there. Saddam Hussein was SUPPOSED to be their ally, but he went nuts instead. So what better way for the West to creep in there quietly than by way of Iraq, which (a) is already a well-known troublemaker, and (b) is so comparatively weak that a total regime change would only cost HUNDREDS of lives as opposed to MILLIONS.
And with a country full of citizens who were already praying for a regime change (negating a few bad apples who like to blow up trucks and cut off construction workers' heads), who are so thankful for the USA's "interference" that they're writing columns daily in Iraqi newspapers on how much better off their country is... the Western world will have their base of operations in the Middle East.
And as calculated as it is, there's really nothing cold-hearted about it. It's symbiotic. Millions of people no longer have to live with the knowledge that they could die tomorrow. And once they get a taste of that freedom, there is no reason for them NOT to help the USA and the rest of the Western World. Do they really want to get invaded by another neighbouring dictatorship and have to go back to living in fear? NO!!! It's only a matter of time before the USA won't even have to ask them for help - THEY will be asking the USA for help. Forget an all-out war in the Middle East, now there's a place where countries might actually be able to gather intelligence! Find out what countries like Iran are really up to - take apart their nuclear weapons programs from the inside, and maybe have another couple of hundred casualties instead of 10 million.
Look at the big picture, people! In our "global" world, we can't afford to have nuclear war in ANY region. Nobody is safe if that happens, and just about everyone knew that in the days of the Cold War. This is classic military strategy that any idiot playing a game of Risk would think of - establish your presence in one of the weakest regions, bonus points for finding a political whipping boy that had it coming anyway, and work from there. The only difference from the Risk strategy is that the USA has no interest in "Americanizing" the region - just democratizing it so they'll have an ALLY there, much like they had allies in Europe during the cold war.
Capiche!? |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cyrus King
i dont give a about canadian politics. I am interested in the middle east |
so you're a Canadian in name only |
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| drewfactor |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I guess it's too much to hope for that anyone not use the word "invade" when it's clearly unwarranted, but in any case, how's this for an answer:
Stability.
In the middle east.
Think of it this way. Iran definitely has a nuclear weapons program. Saudis are playing games and manipulating both sides. Israel is taking heat left, right, and center. Afghanistan has already attacked the U.S. on a large scale and killed tens of thousands of innocent people. And most member states of the U.N. security council are throwing their hands up in the air, if not blatantly supporting dictatorships and terrorism.
There is already intense friction between the West and the Middle East. But think what would happen if the price of oil doubled. Tomorrow. Just try, for a New York Minute, to imagine what the global consequences of that would be. We're talking about a worldwide catastrophe here, we'd be lucky if the body count was less than a hundred times the body count from 9/11, and not just Americans either.
And right in the middle of it all, right on the front lines, there is one little country. This piss-poor dictatorship, who despite its Mickey Mouse status has already managed to piss off just about every civilized country on Mother Earth. Britain hates them. The USA hates them. Israel hates them. Even Iran ing hates them. And thousands of refugees from that country currently residing in Canada hate them with a passion. Most of Europe, except for France, doesn't necessarily hate them but is pretty goddamn afraid of any close contact with them.
That country is called Iraq.
Intelligence from every country with an intelligence division knows for certain that they had very dangerous weapons in the early 1990s. U.N. inspectors have been trying desperately for the past 10 years to prove that they got rid of those weapons but still haven't come up with any more evidence to show that Iraq got rid of its weapons than the USA has come up with to show that they hid them away or shipped them off.
The place is run by one of the most hostile dictators known to man, who already is personally responsible for tens of thousands of deaths. Citizens of his country are responsible for numerous terrorist attacks in the USA. There are suspected (although perhaps unproven) financial ties between them and just about every terrorist organization, including but not limited to Al Qaida, Hamas, and Hizbollah. And what's more, this dictator already has unfinished business with the good ole' USA - a scuffle with George Bush Sr. Yet somehow, in this vast cesspool of violence and hostility, before the USA made any move at all, there was already a growing movement of people who wanted change but just didn't know how to swing it. Many of these people fled to other countries (like Canada); some stayed at home, waiting for the opportunity to do something about the shambles that their country was in.
So there we were with the entire Middle East, and thus the entire world in peril. We can't attack Iran or Saudi Arabia from way over here in the West because millions of people would die if we tried. And the other middle Eastern countries are supposedly allies, even if they do hate America. And there we have a country with one of the scummiest dictators ever who does not deserve to live, let alone run a country. A dictator who, for the past 10 years, political leaders across the globe have been saying "We must do something about this evil dictator!" And a country which strategically is PRECISELY where the West needs an ally in the Middle East.
Not that the USA has any interest in "controlling" that region - your average American politician would prefer to wash his hands clean of anything that goes on down there. It's an oil exporter and nothing more. But only a fool would fail to realize that instability in the Middle East means instability everywhere, including the USA. To protect themselves, they HAVE to establish a presence there. Saddam Hussein was SUPPOSED to be their ally, but he went nuts instead. So what better way for the West to creep in there quietly than by way of Iraq, which (a) is already a well-known troublemaker, and (b) is so comparatively weak that a total regime change would only cost HUNDREDS of lives as opposed to MILLIONS.
And with a country full of citizens who were already praying for a regime change (negating a few bad apples who like to blow up trucks and cut off construction workers' heads), who are so thankful for the USA's "interference" that they're writing columns daily in Iraqi newspapers on how much better off their country is... the Western world will have their base of operations in the Middle East.
And as calculated as it is, there's really nothing cold-hearted about it. It's symbiotic. Millions of people no longer have to live with the knowledge that they could die tomorrow. And once they get a taste of that freedom, there is no reason for them NOT to help the USA and the rest of the Western World. Do they really want to get invaded by another neighbouring dictatorship and have to go back to living in fear? NO!!! It's only a matter of time before the USA won't even have to ask them for help - THEY will be asking the USA for help. Forget an all-out war in the Middle East, now there's a place where countries might actually be able to gather intelligence! Find out what countries like Iran are really up to - take apart their nuclear weapons programs from the inside, and maybe have another couple of hundred casualties instead of 10 million.
Look at the big picture, people! In our "global" world, we can't afford to have nuclear war in ANY region. Nobody is safe if that happens, and just about everyone knew that in the days of the Cold War. This is classic military strategy that any idiot playing a game of Risk would think of - establish your presence in one of the weakest regions, bonus points for finding a political whipping boy that had it coming anyway, and work from there. The only difference from the Risk strategy is that the USA has no interest in "Americanizing" the region - just democratizing it so they'll have an ALLY there, much like they had allies in Europe during the cold war.
Capiche!? |
No No Hardcore Trancer...AMEN!:p :p |
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I guess it's too much to hope for that anyone not use the word "invade" when it's clearly unwarranted, but in any case, how's this for an answer:
Stability.
In the middle east.
Think of it this way. Iran definitely has a nuclear weapons program. Saudis are playing games and manipulating both sides. Israel is taking heat left, right, and center. Afghanistan has already attacked the U.S. on a large scale and killed tens of thousands of innocent people. And most member states of the U.N. security council are throwing their hands up in the air, if not blatantly supporting dictatorships and terrorism.
There is already intense friction between the West and the Middle East. But think what would happen if the price of oil doubled. Tomorrow. Just try, for a New York Minute, to imagine what the global consequences of that would be. We're talking about a worldwide catastrophe here, we'd be lucky if the body count was less than a hundred times the body count from 9/11, and not just Americans either.
And right in the middle of it all, right on the front lines, there is one little country. This piss-poor dictatorship, who despite its Mickey Mouse status has already managed to piss off just about every civilized country on Mother Earth. Britain hates them. The USA hates them. Israel hates them. Even Iran ing hates them. And thousands of refugees from that country currently residing in Canada hate them with a passion. Most of Europe, except for France, doesn't necessarily hate them but is pretty goddamn afraid of any close contact with them.
That country is called Iraq.
Intelligence from every country with an intelligence division knows for certain that they had very dangerous weapons in the early 1990s. U.N. inspectors have been trying desperately for the past 10 years to prove that they got rid of those weapons but still haven't come up with any more evidence to show that Iraq got rid of its weapons than the USA has come up with to show that they hid them away or shipped them off.
The place is run by one of the most hostile dictators known to man, who already is personally responsible for tens of thousands of deaths. Citizens of his country are responsible for numerous terrorist attacks in the USA. There are suspected (although perhaps unproven) financial ties between them and just about every terrorist organization, including but not limited to Al Qaida, Hamas, and Hizbollah. And what's more, this dictator already has unfinished business with the good ole' USA - a scuffle with George Bush Sr. Yet somehow, in this vast cesspool of violence and hostility, before the USA made any move at all, there was already a growing movement of people who wanted change but just didn't know how to swing it. Many of these people fled to other countries (like Canada); some stayed at home, waiting for the opportunity to do something about the shambles that their country was in.
So there we were with the entire Middle East, and thus the entire world in peril. We can't attack Iran or Saudi Arabia from way over here in the West because millions of people would die if we tried. And the other middle Eastern countries are supposedly allies, even if they do hate America. And there we have a country with one of the scummiest dictators ever who does not deserve to live, let alone run a country. A dictator who, for the past 10 years, political leaders across the globe have been saying "We must do something about this evil dictator!" And a country which strategically is PRECISELY where the West needs an ally in the Middle East.
Not that the USA has any interest in "controlling" that region - your average American politician would prefer to wash his hands clean of anything that goes on down there. It's an oil exporter and nothing more. But only a fool would fail to realize that instability in the Middle East means instability everywhere, including the USA. To protect themselves, they HAVE to establish a presence there. Saddam Hussein was SUPPOSED to be their ally, but he went nuts instead. So what better way for the West to creep in there quietly than by way of Iraq, which (a) is already a well-known troublemaker, and (b) is so comparatively weak that a total regime change would only cost HUNDREDS of lives as opposed to MILLIONS.
And with a country full of citizens who were already praying for a regime change (negating a few bad apples who like to blow up trucks and cut off construction workers' heads), who are so thankful for the USA's "interference" that they're writing columns daily in Iraqi newspapers on how much better off their country is... the Western world will have their base of operations in the Middle East.
And as calculated as it is, there's really nothing cold-hearted about it. It's symbiotic. Millions of people no longer have to live with the knowledge that they could die tomorrow. And once they get a taste of that freedom, there is no reason for them NOT to help the USA and the rest of the Western World. Do they really want to get invaded by another neighbouring dictatorship and have to go back to living in fear? NO!!! It's only a matter of time before the USA won't even have to ask them for help - THEY will be asking the USA for help. Forget an all-out war in the Middle East, now there's a place where countries might actually be able to gather intelligence! Find out what countries like Iran are really up to - take apart their nuclear weapons programs from the inside, and maybe have another couple of hundred casualties instead of 10 million.
Look at the big picture, people! In our "global" world, we can't afford to have nuclear war in ANY region. Nobody is safe if that happens, and just about everyone knew that in the days of the Cold War. This is classic military strategy that any idiot playing a game of Risk would think of - establish your presence in one of the weakest regions, bonus points for finding a political whipping boy that had it coming anyway, and work from there. The only difference from the Risk strategy is that the USA has no interest in "Americanizing" the region - just democratizing it so they'll have an ALLY there, much like they had allies in Europe during the cold war.
Capiche!? |
What the hell are you talking about? You've been watching too much [pro-American] CNN, buddy. First of all, United Nations dont have any power, except on paper. The budget on New York City fire department easily exceeds that of UN. They are run and funded by US, and are powerless to stop US. whatever the case is. They couldn't even prevent Rwanda genocide for crying out loud, having "peacekeepers" during the genocide in that country!
The problem is that economy is based on oil, you're right there. Thats a shame, cause I dont need oil to live - corporations and businesses need it. The higher the price of the oil will go, the richer those bastards will be. Arabs have already erected oasis after oasis in their endless deserts - some of their countries like United Arab Emirates, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia have world's highest per-capita INCOME! We need to dump oil and save the world's economy, or else we're in for a ride, and unfortuately, we are stuck on oil.
You say Iraqis hate their country? Thats the biggest BULLSH-T I'VE EVER HEARD. Have you ever been to Iraq before Americans bombed it out in Desert War? Well, I've been there with my father in the 1980s. People lived in peace and happiness [though war with Iran was a dumbarse idea], Iraq was a DEVELOPED [1ST WORLD] country, everyone had access to hospitals, clean water, food, etc. etc. All ethnic minorities got along. The only problem was that Saddam Hussein was a greedy bastard, and he badly wanted to take control of all oilfields in the neighbouring countries - even though his own country had just as much, if not more of oil. Americans and Hussein were friends, ONLY because Soviets were giving Iraq weapons, and of course Americans didnt want Soviets to make friends with Hussein. So thats why Hussein happily fought with Iran, while Soviets and Americans gave him supplies.
After Soviet Union started to collapse, Soviets withdrew all their advisers and stopped sending aid to Iraq - when Hussein invaded Kuwait. Americans then didnt need Hussein anymore, as they found better friends with very oil rich Kuwait. And instead of fighting battles with trained, well-paid Iraqi army, they bombed the F-CK out of the whole country, turning it into a third world country. Tens of thousands, if not more, innocent civilians died. People had no clean drinking water cause all infrastructure was destroyed. After that Americans had little trouble pushing bombed out Iraqi tanks out of Kuwait - but they were too afraid to help out the Iraqi people, cause they knew Iraqi army can kick their butt on Iraqi soil.
After that, Iraq was in ruins, Hussein started to lose the grip on power, and ethnic groups grew weary and revolted. AMERICANS DID NOTHING TO HELP THE REVOLT. Saddam Hussein bitterly CRUSHED the revolt by using gas and heavy weaponry, as resistance was strong. Since then he was a true dictator, whose only way to control the country was to exert force of steel on it. Americans placed a trade embargo on Iraq, destroying Iraqi economy, and further making Iraqi lives more miserable. Americans never helped Iraqi people, they only hurt civilians the most - as Hussein's militia was always well-paid and well-trained, unharmed.
Europeans not only went against the invasion in Iraq because of US, but because they had their own interests and businesses there. Americans had pretty much nothing in Iraq. Saddam was not a dictator, until the Americans turned him into one. I was there in late 1980s - it is such a lovely country, I love their chai ...
There are dozens and dozens of "dictators" in the world right now - so what - do we go and bomb them the hell out? They wont suffer - its the civilians and innocent people that will. Iraq was a weak country and Americans knew it, so they invaded it. Iraqis wont be able to handle the country, cause ordinary people in Iraq want Americans out, as illustrated in Falluja, where Iraqi militia, trained by US, badly failed to the militants. Americans lost the war in Iraq before they started. Iraqis dont want "American Stability", they had stability before Americans invaded with Hussein - even though it was oppressive, and now Iraq is in total chaos! Iraq wasnt gonna be able to hurt a fly - when Americans invaded, they fell like a house of cards! WHERE ARE THE WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION? WHAT DOES IRAQ HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH 9/11?
You need to do some research, buddy. |
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| Rodrico |
Let's not confuse your ideal of stability, for the reality, that its a chance for stability...nothing is secure in the middle east, and no one can see that far ahead, unfortunately, this is a mistake that can either backfire extremely bad, or make George W. look like the the best thing since sliced bread. No offence, but I wouldnt praise him so fast, and not so quick before realizing you still CANT justify the war by killing thousands of people (which happened a very long time ago), and being a tyrant/dictator, there are much worse out there, and much more hostile, and bigger threat to America. So all your implying is America is a bully to satisfy its bigger agenda's.
I would write something long winded like you did Diginut, but I have better things to do than talk politics with interent people all night. And this would take all night long...perhaps on another day, when I have more energy. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
You need to do some research, buddy. |
Interesting, because YOUR post seems to be the one with no actual facts and a lot of disconnected, rehashed, incoherent arguments. I don't think you even read mine, you just quoted it and went on with your wild, nonsensical speculation. It's great how you interpreted everything I said as being about oil, though. Just goes to show that people will hear whatever they want to hear.
Typical looney left argument, really. Lots of emotion, insults hurled at myself as well as "corporations and business" (truly evil, they are! :rolleyes: ), the same irrelevant points about WMD and America supporting Iraq during the Cold War...
Look, I put a fair amount of effort into writing out an "Iraq for dummies" essay so that even the simpletons can understand - the least you can do is address the points in it directly instead of whining.
And no, I haven't been to Iraq, but I've been on close terms with at least 10 people who have, about half of them left before 9/11 (take a wild guess WHY they left :rolleyes: ) |
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rodrico
Let's not confuse your ideal of stability, for the reality, that its a chance for stability...nothing is secure in the middle east, and no one can see that far ahead, unfortunately, this is a mistake that can either backfire extremely bad, or make George W. look like the the best thing since sliced bread. No offence, but I wouldnt praise him so fast, and not so quick before realizing you still CANT justify the war by killing thousands of people (which happened a very long time ago), and being a tyrant/dictator, there are much worse out there, and much more hostile, and bigger threat to America. So all your implying is America is a bully to satisfy its bigger agenda's.
I would write something long winded like you did Diginut, but I have better things to do than talk politics with interent people all night. And this would take all night long...perhaps on another day, when I have more energy. |
come out to THEORY this friday man .. gonna be one helluva partay
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| Magnetonium |
I LIVED on IRAQ FOR A MONTH - have you ever been there? I dont think so! In 1989, Iraq was a very prosperous country. And you dont seem to know much about American destruction of Iraq in 1990s
You dont have any facts either - do the research. I got no time to pull out articles for you, but I guess you seem to know everything anyhow |
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| drewfactor |
Magnetonium
| quote: | | You've been watching too much [pro-American] CNN, buddy. |
CNN has been widely criticized by pro-americans as being very pro-democrat, anti-Bush. I don't know where you get that from.
| quote: | | The problem is that economy is based on oil, you're right there. Thats a shame, cause I dont need oil to live - corporations and businesses need it. |
You don't need oil to live? That is probably one of the funniest things I've ever heard. Maybe you don't drive a car, but you take the bus, you heat your home, you buy stuff in the store that was delivered by people who drive trucks, the material you use at your job were made from oil by-products and those products delivered by trucks etc...etc... I should have to explain this. This is precisely the narrow and myopic worldview that I'm finding very frustrating. Oil is the lifeblood of our economy. If there was not a viable and stable oil supply, all of us can kiss our standard of living good-bye. Maybe you don't like it, but it's a fact.
The rest of your post is so convoluted and contains such a spin on facts, I don't know where to begin refuting it. |
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| Rodrico |
| quote: | Originally posted by dEsidEL
come out to THEORY this friday man .. gonna be one helluva partay
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Ohh...dont entice me, Im saving up for Sunday, alot of people I know are coming down, but we dont know if were doing the industry, or 8 year party. Plus I work all day saturday...*sniff* kinda ruins it for me when I gotta work the next day. |
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