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Yet another American beheaded. This is the sickest thing ive ever seen. (pg. 18)
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| Magnetonium |
| quote: | Originally posted by drewfactor
Magnetonium
CNN has been widely criticized by pro-americans as being very pro-democrat, anti-Bush. I don't know where you get that from.
You don't need oil to live? That is probably one of the funniest things I've ever heard. Maybe you don't drive a car, but you take the bus, you heat your home, you buy stuff in the store that was delivered by people who drive trucks, the material you use at your job were made from oil by-products and those products delivered by trucks etc...etc... I should have to explain this. This is precisely the narrow and myopic worldview that I'm finding very frustrating. Oil is the lifeblood of our economy. If there was not a viable and stable oil supply, all of us can kiss our standard of living good-bye. Maybe you don't like it, but it's a fact.
The rest of your post is so convoluted and contains such a spin on facts, I don't know where to begin refuting it. |
I guess you're right about the oil, my bad. I guess I'll die without oil, I will be DEAD WITHOUT IT ... OH MY GOD ...
And I wasnt just talking about CNN, I was referring to any TV news broadcasting. Sometimes, if not often they can tell lies, or misinterpet things. They may not always see the full picture, or understand situations well. They may not know certain conflicts in the detail that they may be.
Diginut: Ask your Iraqi friends how well their life was before the Desert Storm war. I bet it was better for many of them. They had jobs, they had food, medicare, clean safe water, etc. etc. I saw a very beatiful country back then. Baghdad was a very clean city.
WE NEED TO ELIMINATE OIL NEED FOR OIL. OR HUMANS CAN ONE DAY DESTROY EACH OTHER. Without oil, the world's economy will collapse. I dont think that was gonna happen a hundred years ago |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rodrico
Let's not confuse your ideal of stability, for the reality, that its a chance for stability...nothing is secure in the middle east, and no one can see that far ahead, unfortunately, this is a mistake that can either backfire extremely bad, or make George W. look like the the best thing since sliced bread. No offence, but I wouldnt praise him so fast, and not so quick... |
Not one time did I say that the plan guaranteed stability, and not one time did I praise George W. for it. As you said, it's a chance. As far as I can tell, it's the best chance we have, since Europe and its precious U.N. failed miserably in the 1990s. So, GWB took a chance, maybe it will backfire and maybe it won't, but regardless, the plan is already in motion. So do we want to follow through with it and hope for the best? Or sit around complaining and follow Kerry's panty-waste solution of pulling troops out of Iraq, thus making the Iraqi operation a TOTAL waste of time, resources, and American lives?
| quote: | | ...before realizing you still CANT justify the war by killing thousands of people (which happened a very long time ago), and being a tyrant/dictator, there are much worse out there, and much more hostile, and bigger threat to America. So all your implying is America is a bully to satisfy its bigger agenda's. |
If you want to call that bullying, go ahead. It's a strategy that's been followed several, if not hundreds of times throughout history. It's time-tested and costs relatively little resources, and I seriously doubt that any Iraqi would tell you that they feel "bullied". They are FAR better off now, that point is not even arguable, and if you're going to say that they are worse off then we might as well stop the debate right here because it can go nowhere.
Yes, there are greater dangers out there. I completely agree. Would you prefer that the USA invaded Saudi Arabia or North Korea and started a war which would cost millions of lives? Maybe have Iran miss their nuke target and hit Canada? Or was it perhaps a better idea to deal with the hundreds (thousands is being generous) in Iraq at ground level in order to position themselves to take care of those greater dangers 100 times more efficiently?
You call it bullying but as I said, it's symbiotic. The USA got rid of a world nuisance and brought freedom to the Iraqi people. Was this their sole intention of going into Iraq? No, it was not, the USA definitely has their own self-interest to worry about here. But the good they've done and will continue to do as a result of that self-interest totally outweighs the harm. Actions in self-interest are perfectly capable of benefitting a 3rd party - as a supporter of capitalism you should have no trouble with that concept. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
WE NEED TO ELIMINATE OIL NEED FOR OIL. OR HUMANS CAN ONE DAY DESTROY EACH OTHER. Without oil, the world's economy will collapse. I dont think that was gonna happen a hundred years ago |
Supply and demand, my man. Read an economics textbook.
I'm sure you use just as many petroleum products as the rest of us. And don't worry - economics will take care of the oil dependency, just like it took care of coal. |
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| Magnetonium |
You have a good point, Diginut. Pulling US troops out of Iraq will bring even greater chaos to the country, and the radical militants will take over, and from there on only God knows what can happen. Bush made the mistake of invading Iraq. But Kerry's plan is riddled with holes, and it seems like Bush has a plan and he is willing to stick to it. I am going with the lesser of the two evils in this situation, GWB.
Well, humans never had a COAL CRISIS, did they???? But we do have an OIL CRISIS today that can destroy the world's economy, just like Nostradamus predicted it, I think it's coming. World economy is bracing for its worst challenge yet. |
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| bass drive |
it's funny how everyone who is against the war is labelled as a hippie or leftie...
so say, if x doesn't like jews, would this make him a "righty"? |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by bass drive
it's funny how everyone who is against the war is labelled as a hippie or leftie...
so say, if x doesn't like jews, would this make him a "righty"? |
It's a valid counterbalance for everybody who supports the war being labelled as a gun-slinging right-wing redneck.
I don't see what Jews have to do with it and I find it rather odd that you brought it up at all. |
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| Rodrico |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Not one time did I say that the plan guaranteed stability, and not one time did I praise George W. for it. As you said, it's a chance. As far as I can tell, it's the best chance we have, since Europe and its precious U.N. failed miserably in the 1990s. So, GWB took a chance, maybe it will backfire and maybe it won't, but regardless, the plan is already in motion. So do we want to follow through with it and hope for the best? Or sit around complaining and follow Kerry's panty-waste solution of pulling troops out of Iraq, thus making the Iraqi operation a TOTAL waste of time, resources, and American lives?
If you want to call that bullying, go ahead. It's a strategy that's been followed several, if not hundreds of times throughout history. It's time-tested and costs relatively little resources, and I seriously doubt that any Iraqi would tell you that they feel "bullied". They are FAR better off now, that point is not even arguable, and if you're going to say that they are worse off then we might as well stop the debate right here because it can go nowhere.
Yes, there are greater dangers out there. I completely agree. Would you prefer that the USA invaded Saudi Arabia or North Korea and started a war which would cost millions of lives? Maybe have Iran miss their nuke target and hit Canada? Or was it perhaps a better idea to deal with the hundreds (thousands is being generous) in Iraq at ground level in order to position themselves to take care of those greater dangers 100 times more efficiently?
You call it bullying but as I said, it's symbiotic. The USA got rid of a world nuisance and brought freedom to the Iraqi people. Was this their sole intention of going into Iraq? No, it was not, the USA definitely has their own self-interest to worry about here. But the good they've done and will continue to do as a result of that self-interest totally outweighs the harm. Actions in self-interest are perfectly capable of benefitting a 3rd party - as a supporter of capitalism you should have no trouble with that concept. |
I never said to leave Iraq, its obvious that if America left, that would a. leave the biggest storm, b.ruin any chance for whats left for a chance for democracy (which may happen, but not anytime soon, and maybe not anytime in George W's lifetime)
If USA brought Freedom, you have a narrow view of what freedom is, cause that aint no freedom going on in Iraq, and on the condition that democracy is planted and american uses Iraq as its base, Iraq only becomes another pawn and puppet to the America coalition, just like Afghanistan! As you said, there is no arguement, as of right now, Iraq is in worse condition than it was before, now as the dust settles, and people start taking their places, your right, it may or may not work, and there are never any guarantee's. Now if George Bush had made this HIS plan from day one, and TOLD US ALL, that was his plan from day one (which it obviously was, and all that other crap was a spin off to make him seem like some saint and savior) maybe I wouldnt hate him so much. But the fact is, he fed everyone full of , said nasty things to those who didnt want to back him up for his obvious "american" agenda's. Whether it works or not, it wasnt justified by his reasons, these reasons I may be able to agree with more, but if I voted, would of said No. Thats just my take on it.
Like you said, your not gonna debate the condition of Iraq...Iraq is worse now than it ever was, maybe it might get better, maybe not. I am not debating to take out forces, nor am I debating the past, whats done is done, only thing that pisses me off, is the fact Bush gets away with it. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Magnetonium
Well, humans never had a COAL CRISIS, did they???? But we do have an OIL CRISIS today that can destroy the world's economy, just like Nostradamus predicted it, I think it's coming. World economy is bracing for its worst challenge yet. |
Actually yes, we did. We just didn't have crackpot environmentalists making outrageous predictions about coal. The situation was largely the same as the oil situation now. Coal resources at one point started to dwindle, but people were aware of numerous technologies to alleviate the stress on that market, and the decreasing supply of coal made those alternatives cost-effect so that coal was eventually phased out.
There is no oil crisis. It's a fairy tale, made up by people who try to incite public panic in order to get their 15 minutes of fame. |
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| Rodrico |
| Actually what I would like to see, is a free market for all oil, instead of someone telling the world how much can be released and how much it should be sold for at any given time. Now thats how you put capitalism back in the pants of the Middle East! :p |
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| bass drive |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
It's a valid counterbalance for everybody who supports the war being labelled as a gun-slinging right-wing redneck.
I don't see what Jews have to do with it and I find it rather odd that you brought it up at all. |
I used Jews as an example, I meant minorities in general. (nothing against the jews ;)) |
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| Magnetonium |
Hopefully you read the edit on my previou post, Diginut. My point is that Americans are the ones who ruined Iraq in the 1990s, like the trade embargo, and enforcing the no-fly zones, bombing whatever they wished in Iraq during that decade. Did they give happiness and freedom to Iraqis since? I dont think so! Today they dont have freedom - Iraqi police and collaborators frequently get killed in Iraq on a daily basis. Iraqis dont like American presence in Iraq. "Stability" is not an easy thing to achieve. Its all about American greed, their need of oil, world domination behind the so-called "spread the democracy around the world" caption. American soldiers are giving they lives every day for what? For more violence? It's a very wide topic, but you need to know the bigger piece of the story, you're only seeing the tip of the iceberg. Surely, I dont know everything, and I missed some things like the fact that even I am very dependent on oil. So go to the library or search some articles online about this - you wont be disappointed.
IF THERE IS NO OIL CRISIS - then why are oil prices keep going up? Shouldn't they be going down?
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| dance2dabeat |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
It makes me rethink wanting to have children. I wanted to bring little Theresa's into this world one day, and all this horrible stuff makes me wonder if I should put them through the torture? :( Will anything be safe 20 years from now? I am afraid to get older. I am terrified that this world is gonna blow itself up :mad:
So much corruption, it saddens me. |
I totally hear ya about bringing children into this world. With what I know now compared to what I knew 5 years ago.. this is exactly the reason why people always tell me I live in a box and don't know what's going on in the real world. Well guess what?? This kind of I have to witness for my very own eyes..GOD I rather not know sometimes.....I think that if I didn't know I'm not afraid as I am now. I don't even like being home alone, and walking to my car every night after work....it's pathetic!! I am so afraid of things that I find myself turning my back on those poor homeless people I see on the streets asking me for spare change. I sometimes feel bad about the way I treat certain people now, but it's only because I am afraid and want to keep from harms way. The older I get and the more I know, the more scared I get. :( |
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