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Yet another American beheaded. This is the sickest thing ive ever seen. (pg. 7)
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| Cal |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Elyot
Bush is still a moron IMO but this really isn't his fault. The twin towers being destroyed would have been a good thing if people hadn't got killed. If Americans need to be hurt in order to realize that they should be nicer to the rest of the world, then so be it. A lot of people hate America. None of us has the power to change it. It's too bad that people have to die, but what can you do? If the video hadn't been sent out, people wouldn't be making such a big deal about it, would they?
My final comment is always this. Every empire that has dominated humanity has ALWAYS FALLEN. The Egyptians fell, the Greeks fell, the Romans fell, the Nazis fell, and America's demise is inevitable.
Comments?
~ Elyot |
Man, when's the last time you saw a political figure "do the right thing"? It's all about status and taking no guff now. Do you really see those shotgun waving rednecks swallowing an extra bitter pill like the WTC and saying : "We were wrong. We deserved that. We will change our ways." Bush is no Ghandi, and neither is his posse. The dumbass prolly can't find India on the map, let alone figure out who Ghandi was what he was about. Aaaand he has the gall to call himself Christian.
Right on with the vid comment. US media and the US guv. are like symbiotes, remember that story with that army woman "hero" that got captured and then was "saved" from a hospital by US troops? Man what a media blitz that was. My favourite part was when it turned out everything was bull.
But where's the footage of kids being blown up by "precision laser-guided missles"? Where are those stories? ...fuggen pricks |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Elyot
My final comment is always this. Every empire that has dominated humanity has ALWAYS FALLEN. The Egyptians fell, the Greeks fell, the Romans fell, the Nazis fell, and America's demise is inevitable.
Comments?
~ Elyot |
Such an easy trap to fall into...
So what was the last country that the evil U.S. 'took over' then as part of their 'empire'? :rolleyes: |
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| Cal |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Such an easy trap to fall into...
So what was the last country that the evil U.S. 'took over' then as part of their 'empire'? :rolleyes: |
Stop living in the past. It's not about territory anymore.
But I hear there's no shortage of shiny new oil pipes in Afganistan for example!! |
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| Fir3start3r |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal
Stop living in the past. It's not about territory anymore.
But I hear there's no shortage of shiny new oil pipes in Afganistan for example!! |
Oh yes...let's not forget the battle cry of, "No War for Oil!" :rolleyes:
How old of an arguement is that!?! |
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| Cal |
So because it's old it's a bad argument?
"Smoking causes cancer" is an even older argument, does that mean its even more bull? |
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| mot10n |
reading "hegemony or survival" by noam chomsky right now, and it has opened my eyes as to just how savage the US really are. lots of behind-the-scenes debates go on about how statements can be fabricated, and how "wars" can be won, but checking up on some of Chomsky's footnotes is really astounding. if the US has succeeded in one thing, it's being the more powerful of the two superpowers in the world, the other being public opinion. so hearing of this stuff does not surpise me at all now..
..this is really saddening tho, and it seems that it will continue for a while..
"war is peace" -1984, George Orwell |
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| drewfactor |
| quote: | Originally posted by Kytracid
Maybe it's just me RJ, but dropping a bomb on innocent civilians is just as savage and barbaric as beheading a worker. Senseless death is the just that. The particular methods used aren't really important. I think you're getting hung up because of the grotesque nature of the killing, and sure, it's meant to shock you. But at the end of the day people die in horrific fashion everyday. No on is saying the death of those workers was acceptable. But the truth is that if they hadn't chosen to accept the job offer, and stayed home, they wouldn't have died.
I certainly feel no shame for the action of two men who choose not to accept the clear signs that Iraq is a dangerous place to visit, because they wanted to make money. Their death was certainly in vain, but the reason for it in part was their own lack of judgement in going to Iraq. That you feel so passionate about it doesn't excuse the fact you are blinded by this clear and simple fact. |
This is a prime example of the moral and intellectual derailment that pervades these debates.
If you cannot see the clear distinction between THE DIRECT MURDER OF INNOCENT PEOPLE AS A MEANS AND AN END IN ITSELF and THE DEATHS OF INNOCENTS AS A RESULT OF MILITARY ACTION AGAINST AN ENEMY, then there is no discussion. You are wrong.
Sure they chose to go there, and sure they took that risk...But your failure to see the moral distinction here is astounding. |
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| drewfactor |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cal
Man, when's the last time you saw a political figure "do the right thing"? It's all about status and taking no guff now. Do you really see those shotgun waving rednecks swallowing an extra bitter pill like the WTC and saying : "We were wrong. We deserved that. We will change our ways." Bush is no Ghandi, and neither is his posse. The dumbass prolly can't find India on the map, let alone figure out who Ghandi was what he was about. Aaaand he has the gall to call himself Christian.
Right on with the vid comment. US media and the US guv. are like symbiotes, remember that story with that army woman "hero" that got captured and then was "saved" from a hospital by US troops? Man what a media blitz that was. My favourite part was when it turned out everything was bull.
But where's the footage of kids being blown up by "precision laser-guided missles"? Where are those stories? ...fuggen pricks |
America deserved the WTC attacks? You're sick. Such rot.
The media are symbiotes of the Bush administration? Is that why the NY times used fake photos on a story about Abu Ghraib in order to discredit Bush and the military? Is that why CBS and Dan Rather used forged documents to air a story that was intended to hurt Bush pre-election? Riiiiiight.:) |
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| drewfactor |
Listen. I think I need to second and put some clarity behind what RJ was saying at the beginning of this thread. There is an evil global movement in this world right now. America is trying to do something about it. I contend that America has many faults and has many problems in it's policies. Liberty needs to be brought to these people to stop the forces of hatred that ferment in these regions. Where is the outrage among the vast majority of muslims who claim this is nothing to do with their religion? Sure, people say "well, American imperialist aggression, innocent by-standers being killed by american bombs...blah blah.." Such twaddle.
Were all those 200 (mostly german hippies, australian travellers) killed in the Bali nightclub bombing American imperialists? What about the Russian babies and schoolchildren who were killed the other week by muslim terrorists? What about all those dead spanish? What about all the innocent Iraqis who are mostly being killed by these same muslim terrorists? What about those hundreds of thousands of black christians in the Sudan being killed by muslem militias? Are they American imperialists too? I could go on.
So people, get your heads out of your asses. |
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| Fir3start3r |
^^^^^
Good points drewfactor.
On the subject of morality, some people choose to be 'morally convenient'.
I once went to a large business meeting where the speaker (who has sat for 6 terms on the US House of Representatives) talked about Integrity.
He said that Intergrity = Character + Morality (his equation, not mine).
Intergrity: (the Dictionary term) Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.
The difference between Morality and Character is 'Knowing what is right' and 'Doing what is right'.
For a example, you go to school and the kids are making fun of an overweight kid.
Morally you know this is wrong, but did you do what was right and have the Character to stand up for this kid?
In a world were it's easy to sit back and shake a finger, someone has got to step up and take responsibility.
I for one am glad that it's the U.S. and not someone else. |
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| Superstar |
| quote: | Originally posted by drewfactor
Listen. I think I need to second and put some clarity behind what RJ was saying at the beginning of this thread. There is an evil global movement in this world right now. America is trying to do something about it. I contend that America has many faults and has many problems in it's policies. Liberty needs to be brought to these people to stop the forces of hatred that ferment in these regions. Where is the outrage among the vast majority of muslims who claim this is nothing to do with their religion? Sure, people say "well, American imperialist aggression, innocent by-standers being killed by american bombs...blah blah.." Such twaddle.
So people, get your heads out of your asses. |
And what you are failing to realize is that the US has had a loooooooooooooooooooooong history of messing things up in "that region" and interfering with peoples' governments.
It is not so black and white, who is the bigger evil global movement? A lot of people think it is the USA. Of all the countries who have attacked the most number of other countries in the past 50 years, the US has done the most damage in war time. Not to mention all the CIA coups (whether successful or not) that were attempted to bring democracy to people.
If you have ever lived in the middle-east or even Central/South America and seen the impact that the US has had in making the lives of millions of people miserable first hand then I would bet you would have a different view on this whole situation. If I'm mistaken and you have actually lived in any of those regions, then I apologize.
This is the reason why there are rogue groups who try to attack the American government, and no it's not the people they intend to hurt, this is the only way they can get to the government. Middle-easterners don't feel overwhelmingly compelled to show outrage, although they would prefer civilians weren't targeted.
As for September 11, there were people ALL OVER the middle-east who filled the streets to denounce the terrorist attacks and show their support for the American people. |
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