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Van Nguyen - Hang or not to hang? (pg. 11)
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| Paulie |
| Haha, where the eye for the eye in this case narcism. Way to misquote, one would think you work for 4 corners with the ABC. |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by narcism
if one person dies to save 2 others it was worth it |
ahhh, ok. now it makes sense.
still an utterly indefensible position, but it makes sense ;)
how do you feel about the concept of
'if one person dies yet you cant point to a single purpose or prove any causality linking anything at all it might have been worth it'
would you approve of that too? coz theres absolutely no difference between the two statements. at least one is a little more honest. |
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| DIDI |
| quote: | Originally posted by narcism
above all do no harm
if one person dies to save 2 others it was worth it |
And you're going to introduce us to these two people?
Who knows what he would have done with the rest of his life, he could have spent it helping people to stay out of his situation, ie saved many lives. That's as hypothetical as to how many people would die as a result of his attempted drug smuggling.
The one thing that has happened as far as I am concerned is that I will try to do more to help get rid of the death penalty everywhere and for everyone. First step join Amnesty. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by Renegade
No-one should have to be the victim of the sort of barbarism that Van Nguyen was subject to this morning and to anyone who thinks that what has just occurred is in anyway acceptable - or morally justifiable by any definition of the word - then they need to take a long hard look at themselves and their notion of what is "right". |
So do you believe this was 'just'? Or just not 'right'?
Justice according to established law of Singapore was served. I don't think anyone here disagree that Van Nguyen is guilty of drug trafficking.
Now is this 'right'? Because according to you, no one deserves this 'sort of barbarism'. So what penalties should mass murderers get?
Another question that begs to be asked is do people deserve second chance? If yes, how many second chances?
Perhaps Van Nguyen made a mistake like we all do. But perhaps if he didn't get caught, he'd keep trafficking drugs.
I suppose it all depends on whether you believe that the primary purpose of criminal system is to punish, or to rehabiliate. (Obviously we can see what Singapore's stands is)
| quote: |
There is never any credible justification for killing a defenceless man. Never.
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So, when you can prove that this 'defenceless' man is capable of and probably has the will to cause harm, this is not sufficient justification? (For example, a psycho with history of violent crimes)
One can argue that Van Nguyen's weapon was that stash of drugs he was carrying, to be used against others. *shrug*
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with what I've posted. Actually, I'm playing a bit of both sides but it is a good discussion worth exploring. :) |
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| Psygnosis |
I highly doubt anyone here saying that it's the justified way to deal with situations or how he deserved it would have actually said the same thing if their own family member was on the line or a friend.
First off, it IS wrong, none of this eye for an eye bull. If a person gets busted and is a citizen of another country, they should have the right to be dealt with under their own countries laws.
So tell me this, if you were gay or some other disgusting and you went to Iran, and if they hang you.. is that the right thing? since you must know you will get the hanging if you are caught over there. |
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| narcism |
| quote: | Originally posted by Paulie
Haha, where the eye for the eye in this case narcism. Way to misquote, one would think you work for 4 corners with the ABC. |
You said it, which may have been in relation to the bali bombers, facing the firing squad but it does contradict your stance that capital punishment that is wrong.
| quote: | | And you're going to introduce us to these two people? |
No but i can introduce you to many families that heroin has destroyed, mine included. |
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| DIDI |
| quote: | [i][b]
No but i can introduce you to many families that heroin has destroyed, mine included. |
This is a really good arguement for decrimilisation not capital punishment.
I have enormous sympathy for anyone effected by the problems of addiction, but the fact remains that at some stage addicts make a decision themselves to take drugs. The dealer doesn't come knocking on your front door out of the blue. I have done, and will probably do in the future, volunteer work with addicts [I am officially a bleeding heart lefty!!] so I do know there are a lot of variable circumstances but I also know that killing people is not going to make one scrap of difference. It's not going to help your family or mine. [also affected by addiction]
The interesting thing is the number of recovering junkies [ and some were dealers] who end up working to help others. |
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| A.J. |
Exactly.
If there was no "demand" for drugs, then it is likekly that there wouldn't be the "supply" (ie the dealers). It is because there are people wanting drugs that they are brought into this country, and not the other way around. |
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| TranceForma |
| quote: |
No but i can introduce you to many families that heroin has destroyed, mine included. |
I've got family members and friends who have had to battle against heroin. It was their choice to take the drug in the first place, and they have to take responsibilty for it. Just like i blame myself for self medicating when i'm at a club so i can feel the music more.
Living in the 'drug capital' wasn't easy as it rife around here. Though i made a conscious decision not to touch it, even when my mates were 'chasing the dragon' in front of me.
There will always be people who decide to take drugs for watever the circumstance. And if the demand is there then there will always be another dumb person ready to run the gauntlet no matter wat the punishment is. For every Van Nguyen caught there are loads that will never make the headlines. Desperation make some people do stupid things. We are human after all. |
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| PDT |
It's ironic how technology has allowed us to source out underground hide-outs, fly undetected in 'enemy' territory *does enemy even have a meaning these days?*, execute strategic bombing of 'proven' terror sites and camps, launch humans into space and even get that bit closer to finding a cure for things like aids and cancer, yet no amount of technology can find the 'big wigs' who produce things like heroin, cocaine, marijuana etc. So what they do is execute a trafficker *who might i add is one of, lets assume, thousands* and assume all is coming closer to the warm beautiful assumption that perhaps drugs will one day dissappear. How ing ignorant. For every Van, there are 100 non-Vans, meaning, the stuff will still get into the country and will still be circulated. Why dont people understand this? Why dont 'they' use their so-called 'super technologies of the future', find these drug manufacturers and take them down instead of waiting until seeds appear?
The stupidity of our own government has seen us take part in what truly is a war of no meaning. War on terrorism...please. We have invaded a foreign country on assumption; we have murdered innocent people and left thousands homeless and we have even killed our own troops, and for what...do we feel safer? We still visit Bali, we still work in London and we still work in NYC. Closer to home, we recently took a turn for the worst when we 'stripped' the rights of muslims in our community by 'assuming' they would be terrorists and in turn giving police ultimate power...what a load of anal rubbish!! Are we seriously concerned about what van's trafficking 'could' have done on our streets or are we merely on some idiotic tabloid honeymoon?
I stopped and thought of what our world is like when we've reduce ourselves to taking the life of a defenceless man. I would accept it if someone was murdered or died defending themselves, but in all seriousness, it brings a tear to my eye that someone who was carrying drugs was hung. For the diplomatic few, i feel the same way for the bali 9 who by last account were facing firing squad (correct me if im wrong).
In closing, as i had said previously, i really do feel for our children and our childrens children. The world isnt as amazing as it used to be. (thanks SBS) |
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