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Photos: David Guetta @ Vanguard - 11/22/08 (pg. 9)
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| TommyfromLA |
| quote: | Originally posted by CND
Face it. LA is one of the most if not THE most important EDM cities in the world. Besides Ibiza name a city/region who has more quality bookings annually?
Accept it. That�s all. |
Ummmm.. lol your way off... London, Amsterdam and in the USA Miami has way better bookings and much much better clubs than LA... Seriously if you guys think Vanguard is good you have never been anywhere else.... |
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| nchs09 |
| quote: | Originally posted by CND
Face it. LA is one of the most if not THE most important EDM cities in the world. Besides Ibiza name a city/region who has more quality bookings annually?
Accept it. That’s all. |
lol, who is this gimp? |
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| somethinfierce |
| quote: | Originally posted by TommyfromLA
Ummmm.. lol your way off... London, Amsterdam and in the USA Miami has way better bookings and much much better clubs than LA |
now i cant speak of London or Amsterdam, but i will tell you that in terms of talent... Miami doesnt pull nowhere near what LA does week in & week out
i was @ space for wmc back in 07, i was talking w/these 3 girls who are from Miami. so they ask me where i was from & i tell them LA, one of the girls pipes in
girl - "omg, do you know of the club called Avalon?"
me - "sure, i go there all the time"
girl - "you guys are so spoiled there, do you even realize the talent that comes thru there week in & week out"
me - "ya, i know! how do you kno about Avalon?"
girl - "i went to avalon last year when i was visiting a friend & now i get their bulletins on MySpace every week, im totally blown away by the talent... im so jealous"
having heard that on that day made me totally realize that LA has the cream of the crop week in & week out. like others have mentioned before, when you take into consideration all the other great parties on other nights, i havent seen any other city that can surpass the talent on a non-festival or non-conference type of week a la' DEMF or WMC |
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| Rukes |
| quote: | Originally posted by TommyfromLA
Miami has way better bookings |
:haha: |
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| R!CH |
this is such a stupid argument. for one, everyone is forgetting there's both a quantitative aspect and a qualitative aspect to "best". you have half the thread looking at the quantity and the other half looking at the quality. without a doubt la wins the quantity argument. it's simple math. no other population center in america can hold a candle to la's 15+ million consumer market. with that many people, there's enough demand to segment the market between several megaclubs and several genres every weekend of the year. if on the other hand you measure the strength of the scene by its qualitative nature, you can't really make the same argument for la.
there are many facets to 'quality of experience', and for la much of it just isn't there. the problem is the trade off between quality and quantity. at a certain point, quality begins to deteriorate with the size of the crowd and in my experience the megaclubs of la easily tip the scales. la is a market where the majority of touring talent goes through the megaclub/massive circuit. some people like being in crowds of 3000-30000, but i find it makes the whole thing from the service you get to the vibe around you more impersonal. it has less of that house party feel and more of a rock concert feel. bouncers, bartenders, people around you are much quicker to brush you off. you also encounter a lot more of the garbage in the scene... the crackheads, meatheads, s, dbags, etc are more prevalent. these people detract from the party and unfortunately if they just show up to the same club every weekend you'll be forced to deal with them despite your best efforts.
in every instance where i've had a basis for comparison, i've had a much better time in every way at smaller venues with crowds much smaller than 1000. i enjoy my nights especially when i can navigate a crowd with ease or when i don't have to wait in any line at all to get into the club. i also enjoy being able to walk in and out of the club all night long without being hassled. i love cheap tickets and cheaper partying--like being able to walk outside of the club, go to the liquor store right across the street and buy a bottle to pound in my car before walking in drunk to spend $20 at the bar all night. i like the option of being able to walk outside when i'm tired to get fresh air and food so i can come back in 20 min recharged. i like having free, safe parking around the club. i like how approachable all the promoters in this city are and how easy it is to get to know all the regulars in the entire scene by name. i like it better when one touring dj headlines and gets 3-4 hours rather than 2-3 headliners splitting 1-2 hour sets. these are just a few shortcomings in la's scene, which is why i wouldn't trade the quality i get here for the quantity available there. i will admit on the other hand that the sf scene is fortunate enough to be in close enough proximity to la that we get to share some talent that we otherwise wouldn't get because of la. i LOVE the fact that much of la's saturday night talent comes to sf on thursdays, fridays and sundays.
finally, i do understand that la has its smaller parties such as the standard, nacional, king king, etc. those are probably the best bets for someone like me in that town. on the other hand much of my argument revolves around the megaclub talent where in order to see someone like burridge or lawler, you HAVE TO deal with huge crowds in huge clubs and all the crap that comes with it. |
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| PicottoIsGod |
| quote: | Originally posted by R!CH
this is such a stupid argument. for one, everyone is forgetting there's both a quantitative aspect and a qualitative aspect to "best". you have half the thread looking at the quantity and the other half looking at the quality. without a doubt la wins the quantity argument. it's simple math. no other population center in america can hold a candle to la's 15+ million consumer market. with that many people, there's enough demand to segment the market between several megaclubs and several genres every weekend of the year. if on the other hand you measure the strength of the scene by its qualitative nature, you can't really make the same argument for la.
there are many facets to 'quality of experience', and for la much of it just isn't there. the problem is the trade off between quality and quantity. at a certain point, quality begins to deteriorate with the size of the crowd and in my experience the megaclubs of la easily tip the scales. la is a market where the majority of touring talent goes through the megaclub/massive circuit. some people like being in crowds of 3000-30000, but i find it makes the whole thing from the service you get to the vibe around you more impersonal. it has less of that house party feel and more of a rock concert feel. bouncers, bartenders, people around you are much quicker to brush you off. you also encounter a lot more of the garbage in the scene... the crackheads, meatheads, s, dbags, etc are more prevalent. these people detract from the party and unfortunately if they just show up to the same club every weekend you'll be forced to deal with them despite your best efforts.
in every instance where i've had a basis for comparison, i've had a much better time in every way at smaller venues with crowds much smaller than 1000. i enjoy my nights especially when i can navigate a crowd with ease or when i don't have to wait in any line at all to get into the club. i also enjoy being able to walk in and out of the club all night long without being hassled. i love cheap tickets and cheaper partying--like being able to walk outside of the club, go to the liquor store right across the street and buy a bottle to pound in my car before walking in drunk to spend $20 at the bar all night. i like the option of being able to walk outside when i'm tired to get fresh air and food so i can come back in 20 min recharged. i like having free, safe parking around the club. i like how approachable all the promoters in this city are and how easy it is to get to know all the regulars in the entire scene by name. i like it better when one touring dj headlines and gets 3-4 hours rather than 2-3 headliners splitting 1-2 hour sets. these are just a few shortcomings in la's scene, which is why i wouldn't trade the quality i get here for the quantity available there. i will admit on the other hand that the sf scene is fortunate enough to be in close enough proximity to la that we get to share some talent that we otherwise wouldn't get because of la. i LOVE the fact that much of la's saturday night talent comes to sf on thursdays, fridays and sundays.
finally, i do understand that la has its smaller parties such as the standard, nacional, king king, etc. those are probably the best bets for someone like me in that town. on the other hand much of my argument revolves around the megaclub talent where in order to see someone like burridge or lawler, you HAVE TO deal with huge crowds in huge clubs and all the crap that comes with it. |
point taken...
Hey look man im not saying that getting smashed with your friends in the parking lot, on a casual nightout, where there happens to be a good dj in town that only costs you a total of 40$ between alcohol and cover all night isn't fun...different strokes for different folks.
Weve all at one point in time done that, but to criticize the extravegance of an event and utilize the long lines as a negative thing is extremely childish and not worthy of any logical considerance. How can you criticize something that's bigger and takes more work to accomplish?
Getting hammered in the parking lot is something that you grow out of. You're with your girl, you're with your friends and their girls, or there is a birthday. Imagine walking up to the line with a flask in your hand or even pounding it in your car. If thats your argument then like i said different strokes for different folks. But you definitely couldnt be more off-base bringing that up as an example.
It takes alot more work to assemble the event that you're complaining about than to put together the event that you're supporting.
This city has plenty of quality smaller venues to offer you on a regular basis that have some of the worlds sickest dj's come thru. Nacional, Cinespace and KingKing are three prime examples of venues that hint that cozy, intimate atmosphere that you seek.
Realistically i dunno wat the u guys are trippin on, but besides Tiesto , Guetta, and maybe Sharam no other dj really draws an excess of attendees to a point where the club is overflowing with people. And its definitely not as cliche as you guys make it out to be. Sasha,Digweed,Howells,Sanchez,Cattaneo etc all have had reasonable lines with discount lists of nomore than 20$. God knows everybody and their mother is a promoter nowadays. You gotta know somebody that can get you on some sort of a guestlist. And if you dont know any promoters personally thank god for TA because there are plenty of revolving guestlist in this forum.
goodnite |
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| DaveT |
| quote: | Originally posted by PicottoIsGod
Getting hammered in the parking lot is something that you grow out of. You're with your girl, you're with your friends and their girls, or there is a birthday. Imagine walking up to the line with a flask in your hand or even pounding it in your car. If thats your argument then like i said different strokes for different folks. But you definitely couldnt be more off-base bringing that up as an example. |
Actually, I am gonna disagree with you.
As I've gotten older, the people I know aroudn me getting older do the whole buy liquor at the store and slam it int he car...maybe because as we are getting older we are going to more venues with in-and-outs? So you can slam some alcohol, go in...and when you need more alcohol, just take a break and go back to your car.
When people are young they are more careless with their money...but as they get older and get more wise with the money, then they start taking advantage of being able to go to their car.
It's usually slamming hard liquor in the car and then sipping on a beer inside.
And I've seen girls pull out the liquor in their car just as much as guys...so it's not a guy thing.
I don't drink that much these days and never really have done it myself, just going by the people around me. |
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| PicottoIsGod |
| quote: | Originally posted by mattW
Spoken like a true promoter:) |
Not Really...
:conf:
if i used that as my primary arguement ide agree .
I acknoweledged both the intimate and extravegant events.
Theyre saying that LA is extravegant and over the top. Im agreeing, it most certainly does have a typical "hollywood" vibe to it.
and in addition to that im also stating that the more personal and intimate venues are not to be forgotten. Just wanna make sure you understand my point of view that the city overall as a "scene" has all aspects of party life to offer. Events of all sizes amongst 10 venues big and small. Pick and chose which one you want and dont reduce the value or importance of the larger events. Thats All
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) |
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| PicottoIsGod |
| quote: | Originally posted by DaveT
Actually, I am gonna disagree with you.
As I've gotten older, the people I know aroudn me getting older do the whole buy liquor at the store and slam it int he car...maybe because as we are getting older we are going to more venues with in-and-outs? So you can slam some alcohol, go in...and when you need more alcohol, just take a break and go back to your car.
When people are young they are more careless with their money...but as they get older and get more wise with the money, then they start taking advantage of being able to go to their car.
It's usually slamming hard liquor in the car and then sipping on a beer inside.
And I've seen girls pull out the liquor in their car just as much as guys...so it's not a guy thing.
I don't drink that much these days and never really have done it myself, just going by the people around me. |
Dude im no stranger to pre-partying. Or walking into the club with a solid buzz. I dont recall the last time i entered a club without having a sip of something earlier. All im saying is that the Ins and Outs IMO are such minor details, mere preferences if you ask me when it comes to rating a club in its overall appeal, structure and bookings. What im trying to say is that if you're gonna tell me that Vanguard sucks becuase they have a strict In and Out policy and you cant go to your car to take a few swigs so you can save a few bucks then i rest my case. I have nothing else to say to you CHAMP!;) im officially done with this debate.... |
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| R!CH |
| quote: | Originally posted by PicottoIsGod
Weve all at one point in time done that, but to criticize the extravegance of an event and utilize the long lines as a negative thing is extremely childish and not worthy of any logical considerance. How can you criticize something that's bigger and takes more work to accomplish?
It takes alot more work to assemble the event that you're complaining about than to put together the event that you're supporting.
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i don't really see how it's childish of me to think waiting in inexplicably long lines does impact my experience negatively. it doesn't speak to my maturity for liking the idea of walking up to a club, showing my id, and getting in in under 5 minutes 95% of the time. i think it's retarded when clubs use their customers as ornaments for curb appeal while the inside is playing music to an empty room.
a bigger venue with a bigger crowd only takes more work to accomplish than what i support here if they are operating at the same level of professionalism and efficiency or better. if they have twice as big a crowd and it takes twice as long to get everyone inside, then they aren't really doing anything special are they? i'm not impressed by how door staffers twiddle their thumbs up front waiting for people to slip them extra money to get in at a reasonable time.
| quote: | Originally posted by PicottoIsGod
Getting hammered in the parking lot is something that you grow out of. You're with your girl, you're with your friends and their girls, or there is a birthday. Imagine walking up to the line with a flask in your hand or even pounding it in your car. If thats your argument then like i said different strokes for different folks. But you definitely couldnt be more off-base bringing that up as an example. |
i also don't see how prefading at the car instead of waiting at the bar several times to pay 500% markup plus tip for the same liquor is childish. i could spend $90 in a night, but i'd rather stretch that out to $30/night 3 nights a week and get 3 times the enjoyment out of it. since i go out several times a week, every week of the year, i don't see any reason to 'grow out' of this pattern.
| quote: | Originally posted by PicottoIsGod
Realistically i dunno wat the u guys are trippin on, but besides Tiesto , Guetta, and maybe Sharam no other dj really draws an excess of attendees to a point where the club is overflowing with people. And its definitely not as cliche as you guys make it out to be. Sasha,Digweed,Howells,Sanchez,Cattaneo etc all have had reasonable lines with discount lists of nomore than 20$. God knows everybody and their mother is a promoter nowadays. You gotta know somebody that can get you on some sort of a guestlist. And if you dont know any promoters personally thank god for TA because there are plenty of revolving guestlist in this forum. |
i'm not really trippin on anything, i just wanted to point out how ridiculous this whole "my scene is the best ever, end of story." talk is by showing how inadequate the reasoning has been. you want to argue the booking end of the equation while ignoring the experience. well what if there was a city with twice as many top bookings as la except everyone inside smells like human and there's a 50% chance of getting stabbed? do you argue that place is better than la because it has twice the bookings ignoring everything else?
| quote: | Originally posted by PicottoIsGod
Dude im no stranger to pre-partying. Or walking into the club with a solid buzz. I dont recall the last time i entered a club without having a sip of something earlier. All im saying is that the Ins and Outs IMO are such minor details, mere preferences if you ask me when it comes to rating a club in its overall appeal, structure and bookings. What im trying to say is that if you're gonna tell me that Vanguard sucks becuase they have a strict In and Out policy and you cant go to your car to take a few swigs so you can save a few bucks then i rest my case. I have nothing else to say to you CHAMP!;) im officially done with this debate.... |
i can see how not having that luxury available to you makes it no big deal. people in china think not having freedom of speech is no big deal too. however when you have a freedom to do something and it's taken from you, yes, it does impact the quality of your experience. being able to come and go as you please is more than just going to your car to take a few swigs and that is only one part of it. i am also done with this 'debate'. if i go any deeper into this, i'll begin to look like a hater. i just wanted to point out the club experience in la is nowhere near the best. bookings, perhaps. |
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| Nerologic |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rukes
:haha: |
+1 |
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| Cool1g |
| quote: | Originally posted by TommyfromLA
Ummmm.. lol your way off... London, Amsterdam and in the USA Miami has way better bookings and much much better clubs than LA... Seriously if you guys think Vanguard is good you have never been anywhere else.... |
I'll readily agree Miami has some nice clubs - mainly Cameo and Space, Nikki Beach in the old days before the noise restrictions, LIV looks really nice and Set has a great design too. But to say their dj bookings is better than LA's is just ignorant. Of course the top 20 djs drop by there regualarly but overall their scene doesn't hold a candle to LA. Mansion up until recently only had rare EDM nites and Cameo has dropped EDM completely from their lineup. Space only plays EDM on Sat nites/afterhours and sometimes even has open format/hip hop early on before going to EDM for the afterhours.
Pacha Ibiza isn't really that special if you look closely and the FMIF and Subliminal nites there are just as packed as Vanguard was the other nite. (i've heard plenty of complaints about how you can barely move there on those nites too).
i don't see too many people on here saying Vanguard as a club kicks ass (other than the sound system). Its really just a warehouse with a coat of paint and a great sound system. Avalon is a bit nicer IMO but the washers/after-hours crowd are a negative.
i'd like to see what the the Fox Theater venue will try and do.
Ecco lounge is trying the upscale clubbing environment with djs...in a month or two we'll know how that works out.
Versus could be a player too but it seems like they have pretty much cancelled all of their Nov bookings (or did they have Sneak and Max Graham and Jonathan Peters and no one heard about them???). |
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