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things you are sick of in fashion today (pg. 18)
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| evil_cookie |
| quote: | Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~*
Well like I said, the fact that you don't take your job serious enough to dress like a professional at your job shows your lack of respect for the students who pay thousands of dollars to get a professional education. I'm not asking for a suit and tie, but I expect my professors to come to school in more than just their gym clothes. I would definitely not take a class of yours.
I like how just b/c you're a professor and have discretion to decide what to wear that you want to wear, it means that you're excused from professionalism. Maybe I'll become a professor and wear club outfits to work, or t-shirts with swear words on it. I have discretion, so I may as well. Who cares if I'm a role model :rolleyes: |
Let's go over all the assumptions you've made just in this one post:
(i) "the fact that [I] don't take [my] job serious"
I don't even need to address this.
(ii) "shows your lack of respect for the students who pay thousands of dollars to get a professional education."
You assume that all students invariably take offense at how their instructors are dressed.
(iii) "it means that you're excused from professionalism"
You assume that there is professionalism and non-professionalism--your false dichotomy does not work. There are degrees of professionalism.
(iv) "Who cares if I'm a role model"
The biggest assumption: you assume that ALL professors are hired to be role models. Even more grossly, you assume that all professors WANT to be role models--which I cannot agree with, in fact, I vehemently disagree. It's simply not the case. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| You're right. I'm actually convinced that most professors don't care about teaching at all, and only got into the job so they could hear the sound of their own voice. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_cookie
You assume that all students invariably take offense at how their instructors are dressed. |
I won't argue with the other things you've said. It's honestly a matter of opinion, and no amount of talking past each other is going to change that.
However, one thing is for sure: some students may take offense, and some students may respect you less, which is ultimately going to undermine your effectiveness as a teacher, because you have to maintain some air of authority.
If you're OK with that - great. But don't rationalize by telling yourself that those students are losers or even that they're wrong. If you consider dress to be something entirely at your discretion, then the way somebody else interprets it is entirely at theirs. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
I'm actually convinced that most professors don't care about teaching at all, and only got into the job so they could hear the sound of their own voice. |
Or to be alone with their research. Either way, teaching tends not to be a priority, and more of an obligation. |
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| evil_cookie |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I won't argue with the other things you've said. It's honestly a matter of opinion, and no amount of talking past each other is going to change that.
However, one thing is for sure: some students may take offense, and some students may respect you less, which is ultimately going to undermine your effectiveness as a teacher, because you have to maintain some air of authority.
If you're OK with that - great. But don't rationalize by telling yourself that those students are losers or even that they're wrong. If you consider dress to be something entirely at your discretion, then the way somebody else interprets it is entirely at theirs. |
Fair enough. |
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| DJ_Elyot |
| quote: | Originally posted by jennypie
You're right. I'm actually convinced that most professors don't care about teaching at all, and only got into the job so they could hear the sound of their own voice. |
For a real prof (tenured, etc), their foremost responsibility is their academic research; teaching is a secondary responsibility that is less important to most. They are brilliant minds and you ought to be thrilled just to be in their presence.
On the other hand, if you're just a grad student or a post doc teaching a class, you better do a damn good job because future decisions about hiring/tenure will depend on your teaching evaluations.
I don't think the attire of my instructors is important whatsoever, BUT I'm biased as a math student at Waterloo, where nobody really gives a about appearances and people's worth is judged by their intelligence and their contributions to the field.
If I was a post-doc teaching a class and needing a good evaluation, I'd keep my target market in mind. Math at Waterloo--obviously I'm not gonna bother dressing up to teach a class; jeans and a t-shirt will suffice. Prissy arts/business students at york or queens or ryerson--yeah, I'd probably make sure I look nice to avoid any potential loss of marks on the teaching evaluations due to shallowness of students' judgement. |
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| Superstring |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Elyot
Prissy arts/business students at york or queens or ryerson--yeah, I'd probably make sure I look nice to avoid any potential loss of marks on the teaching evaluations due to shallowness of students' judgement. |
what?:conf: |
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| Abercrombie |
| Girls in sweats and PJs are the most huggaliscious! |
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| *~LiSa-LoO~* |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_cookie
Let's go over all the assumptions you've made just in this one post:
(i) "the fact that [I] don't take [my] job serious"
I don't even need to address this.
(ii) "shows your lack of respect for the students who pay thousands of dollars to get a professional education."
You assume that all students invariably take offense at how their instructors are dressed.
(iii) "it means that you're excused from professionalism"
You assume that there is professionalism and non-professionalism--your false dichotomy does not work. There are degrees of professionalism.
(iv) "Who cares if I'm a role model"
The biggest assumption: you assume that ALL professors are hired to be role models. Even more grossly, you assume that all professors WANT to be role models--which I cannot agree with, in fact, I vehemently disagree. It's simply not the case. |
I'm just going to have to agree to disagree with you. It's clear that I am one of those students who does take offense to a teacher who doesn't dress appropriately for class. And by appropriate I will stress that I do not mean suit and tie, but I think that wearing sweats is unacceptable. Jeans and a t-shirt I have no problem with.
I'll apologize for saying that you don't take your job seriously, but I still think it's a lack of respect you show by saying you wear sweats to class.
And regardless if there are degrees of professionalism or not, I don't see how sweatpants would fit anywhere into anything "professional" unless you're a gym teacher.
You're wrong in thinking that I'm assuming all professors are hired to be role models. I know that is not the case. I know that a lot of them are hired b/c of their research, which is ultimately their main goal, and teaching is just a requirement they have to fulfill. From my personal experience, and from the experience of others the teachers who are just there for the research and care less about the students end up being the worst teachers. Which is really unfortunate b/c they're probably some of the people that the students could learn the most from.
I just feel that even if you're a professor who feels that teaching is more of a chore when you could be doing other research, that I paid all this money for you to give me an education, the least you could do is put on a nice pair of jeans and a shirt, and not look like you just rolled out of bed. Especially when most of those teachers only teach 6-10 hours a week. |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~*
+1 I definitely agree with this. At law school I find 90% of the people dress up in business attire (to the point where I even asked an upper-year at orientation if there was a dress code). I realize that many of the upper-years have presentations or go to court etc. thus they just end up staying dressed up all day. But I sometimes feel out of place b/c when I go to class I wear jeans and a t-shirt, as I'm a much more casual person. When I need to dress up, I do. But when I go to class, I don't see anything wrong with wearing casual clothes. However, I'm still against flannel pants and stained shirts. |
Professional school is a whole other breed of wardrobe, and while the odd slacker day is ok, you don't want to be known as the person who dressed like a slob all the time. |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ_Elyot
For a real prof (tenured, etc), their foremost responsibility is their academic research; teaching is a secondary responsibility that is less important to most. They are brilliant minds and you ought to be thrilled just to be in their presence.
On the other hand, if you're just a grad student or a post doc teaching a class, you better do a damn good job because future decisions about hiring/tenure will depend on your teaching evaluations.
I don't think the attire of my instructors is important whatsoever, BUT I'm biased as a math student at Waterloo, where nobody really gives a about appearances and people's worth is judged by their intelligence and their contributions to the field.
If I was a post-doc teaching a class and needing a good evaluation, I'd keep my target market in mind. Math at Waterloo--obviously I'm not gonna bother dressing up to teach a class; jeans and a t-shirt will suffice. Prissy arts/business students at york or queens or ryerson--yeah, I'd probably make sure I look nice to avoid any potential loss of marks on the teaching evaluations due to shallowness of students' judgement. |
You obviously missed my other posts. Of course it isn't an indication of one's intelligence, their contributions to the field, or whatever the else...but you're naive if you think one's appearance isn't sending a message about the kind of person he/she is. |
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| *~LiSa-LoO~* |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
Professional school is a whole other breed of wardrobe, and while the odd slacker day is ok, you don't want to be known as the person who dressed like a slob all the time. |
While I agree with you on professional school, I don't think that wearing nice jeans and a clean t-shirt = dressing like a slob (if that is actually what you're saying). |
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