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any of yall have bipolar disorder? (pg. 10)
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| Echo of Silence |
I read a couple of other articles that were just as gloomy. One from a couple of years ago:
http://www.psychiatrictimes.com/dis...cle/10168/47631
What's really kind of pathetic is it costs the prisons more to house the mentally ill than it would cost to care for them outside of a prison environment.
Oh, this is for 17sssss:
Fifty years ago, the U.S. had nearly 600,000 state hospital beds for people suffering from mental illness. Today, because of federal and state funding cuts, that number has dwindled to 40,000. When the government began closing state-run hospitals in the 1980s, people suffering from mental illness had nowhere to go. Without proper treatment and care, many ended up in the last place anyone wants to be.
Later, in the same article:
When it comes to mental health care in the U.S., Leifman says, history is repeating itself. During the 1800s, long before state-run agencies existed to treat mental illness, families would simply drop their loved ones off at jails or prisons, where their conditions remained untreated. Then came state-run hospitals that Leifman refers to as "horror houses" given that patients were usually either neglected or abused — experiments involving drugs and electroshock therapy inspired movies like One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest and finally drew the public's attention to the civil rights abuses of people with mental illness. There appeared a glimmer of hope in 1963, when President Kennedy, in what would be his last public bill-signing, authorized $3 billion to create the first national network of mental health facilities. But after Kennedy's assassination, the country turned its focus to Vietnam and not one penny went into the project.
"It's the one area in civil rights that we've gone backwards on," says Leifman, noting that nearly half of the nine floors in Miami-Dade's County Jail are mental health wards, even though the building is "more like a warehouse than a facility." He decries the conditions that these inmates face, including vermin-infested, decrepit buildings that lack adequate ventilation, lighting and water supplies. Leifman also laments the amount of taxpayer dollars used to fund such an inadequate system. Taxpayers in Miami-Dade County spend $100,000 each day to house the mentally ill in prison; moreover, studies show that people with mental illness stay in jail eight times longer than other inmates, at seven times the cost.
http://www.time.com/time/health/art...1651002,00.html |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| I don’t think you can really compare time magazine or frontline to the vast wealth of knowledge and resources the17sss has available to him in order to investigate the issue :p |
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| Renzo |
| Stu has bisexual disorder. Is that similar? |
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| Silky Johnson |
| :stongue: :stongue: |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by Renzo
Stu has bisexual disorder. Is that similar? |
Try-sexual, actually. I'll try anything :gsmile: |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Echo of Silence
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The article also says this:
| quote: | | Taxpayers in Miami-Dade County spend $100,000 each day to house the mentally ill in prison. |
and
| quote: | | "We can't really build our way out of the problem. It's not just about state hospital beds or jails," Leifman says. "We need to really take a hard look at how we're dealing with the problem overall." |
So using the Miami-Dade example, how much more should the taxpayer subsidize care for the mentally ill in that county? $200,000 per day? $500,000 per day? $1,000,000? Should we take away from other sectors like highway funding to do it?
I agree with that Leifman guy that HOW we're dealing with the problem overall is the best way to attack the issue, but where do you set the limit for an already reeling taxpayer population (at least, the 50% of people who actually do pay them). Some of the mentally ill simply belong in prison, period... many are a danger to themselves and others, and putting them into a minimum security facility won't change a thing. Because they are mentally ill doesn't automatically absolve them of the crimes they have committed, and it's naive to think "if only we could put them into a more caring facility they'll straighten up." For those who's conditions are manifested by substance abuse... sorry, but drugs are illegal and they brought that on themselves.
Your main argument was that the U.S. doesn't take care of it's mentally ill. Could we improve? yes. But if you want to compare our system to other countries, you should take note of this, from Anasseril E. Daniel, MD.... president of Daniel Correctional Psychiatric Services, Inc., and Clinical Professor of Psychiatry, University of Missouri School of Medicine:
| quote: | U.S. courts have clearly established that prisoners have a Constitutional right to receive medical and mental health care that meets minimum standards (Ruiz v. Estelle) with no underlying distinction between the rights to medical care for physical illness and its psychological counterpart (Bowring v. Godwin).
Clinical services are to be provided in the inherently coercive system of prisons without compromising its missions and the providers' ethics standards |
http://www.jaapl.org/cgi/content/full/35/4/406
There is a clearly established Supreme Court ruling mandating a standard of care that far exceeds most other countries. If an individual or the family of an individual believes that persons' Constitutional rights are being violated, they can take the case to the courts with pretty good odds. Show me another country where that option is available. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
So using the Miami-Dade example, how much more should the taxpayer subsidize care for the mentally ill in that county? $200,000 per day? |
Read your quote, champ. It said "prison." That proves her point, no? |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
Some of the mentally ill simply belong in prison, period... many are a danger to themselves and others, and putting them into a minimum security facility won't change a thing. Because they are mentally ill doesn't automatically absolve them of the crimes they have committed, and it's naive to think "if only we could put them into a more caring facility they'll straighten up." |
You should really check your criminal code more often. Being mentally ill DOES often mean that they are “automatically absolved” of their crimes, and placed in a facility dedicated to the incarceration of the mentally incapable. No one’s talking about them (necessarily) getting better or being forgiven or given an easy ride, simply that prisons are not the place to treat serious mental illness.
Its retarded to suggest that a person’s mental capacity should have no relevance when deciding what to do with them, as is the insinuation that prison is an acceptable “catch all” for a country’s “deviants”. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Read your quote, champ. It said "prison." That proves her point, no? |
I know it said prison... she's arguing about how bad the prison care is, and gave financial numbers for it so I asked what she thought was appropriate to make matters better (even though there is a supreme court mandate for a standard of care I mentioned). I know it's cheaper to give care in private facilities but it also costs a lot to build them first, which wasn't mentioned; it's not like there are hundreds of alternative (to prison) care facilities sitting around with empty beds.
Dude, you're like a heat seeking missle to anything I write... butting your way into my conversations doing everything you can to try to get under my skin and argue the opposite of what I say. Go jerk off to your nobel prize winning literary collection you love to brag about and STAY THE OUT OF MY DISCUSSIONS! Don't talk to me, don't ask me any questions, don't try to interject your ing opinions into my posts anymore. Just ing OFF already. God! |
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| Sushipunk |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
I know it said prison... she's arguing about how bad the prison care is, and gave financial numbers for it so I asked what she thought was appropriate to make matters better (even though there is a supreme court mandate for a standard of care I mentioned). I know it's cheaper to give care in private facilities but it also costs a lot to build them first, which wasn't mentioned; it's not like there are hundreds of alternative (to prison) care facilities sitting around with empty beds.
Dude, you're like a heat seeking missle to anything I write... butting your way into my conversations doing everything you can to try to get under my skin and argue the opposite of what I say. Go jerk off to your nobel prize winning literary collection you love to brag about and STAY THE OUT OF MY DISCUSSIONS! Don't talk to me, don't ask me any questions, don't try to interject your ing opinions into my posts anymore. Just ing OFF already. God! |
And Kevin finally snaps. |
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
You should really check your criminal code more often. Being mentally ill DOES often mean that they are “automatically absolved” of their crimes, and placed in a facility dedicated to the incarceration of the mentally incapable. No one’s talking about them (necessarily) getting better or being forgiven or given an easy ride, simply that prisons are not the place to treat serious mental illness.
Its retarded to suggest that a person’s mental capacity should have no relevance when deciding what to do with them, as is the insinuation that prison is an acceptable “catch all” for a country’s “deviants”. |
I was specifically talking about those who's mental illnesses are manifested AFTER they partake in drug abuse... self induced.... NOT those who just have mental illnesses to begin with. |
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| Lebezniatnikov |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
it's not like there are hundreds of alternative (to prison) care facilities sitting around with empty beds.
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Right, and I think that was her point. |
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