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Question for the COR women (females and hobbies) (pg. 17)
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Don't worry, I won't disagree with you that storylines have gone in favour of pretty graphics and uninspiring play styles. It's still a very rough point though to say games don't have any good stories.
There's plenty of rubbish books with some stand out ones.
There's a hugh abundance of rubbish movies with the ocassional good ones.
There's no reason why this doesn't apply to video games which are just another form of story telling. |
I don't think it's a rough point at all. I've played lots of games on all formats for many years. I used to read lots of games magazines and buy the critically praised games. I'm not speaking lightly or quickly when I say games do not compare to cinema or literature.
There are several inherent reasons for this:
1. Games are very expensive and difficult to make. Anyone can write a novel for free, and hundreds of low-budget indie films are made every year that are better than multi-million dollar blockbusters. Indie games are generally very shoddy: there are only a few that compare to the mainstream equivalents. Games need expensive things like graphics engines, AI programming and 3D modelling to compete. As such, the industry is dominated by the rich publishers and developers who have a complete creative stranglehold on ouput.
2. Games are not art. Games can be objectively poor. Crashes, bugs, bad AI, broken level design, features that don't work properly. There's no interpretation in any of these. They're broken. Games are still technology first, art a distant second.
3. Narrative is not demographic. The reader, the viewer, the listener don't get to decide what happens next. Narrative is a semiotic system of careful arrangement and contrast. Games that are actually fun have to hand control to the player for large periods, which is largely irreconcilable with good storytelling. There must always be rigidity in the story. Even in Deus Ex, you only get to choose one of several pre-defined plot paths. It is not truly fluid. The storytelling happens outside of your control.
Most of the story-heavy games: MGS, Final Fantasy and all JRPGs, are absolutely no fun because you hardly spend any time playing them. The games that are most fun hardly have any plot, because they give you more control and freedom.
By the way, have you actually looked at those "gamers are 35" surveys?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8206163.stm
"Researchers from the government agency analysed data from 500 adults aged 19 to 90 in the Seattle-Tacoma area of Washington state."
"Health risk factors, specifically a higher BMI and a larger number of poor mental-health days, differentiated adult video game players from non-gamers," he said.
"Video game players also reported lower extraversion, consistent with research on adolescents that linked video-game playing to a sedentary lifestyle and overweight status." |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
1. Games are very expensive and difficult to make. Anyone can write a novel for free, and hundreds of low-budget indie films are made every year that are better than multi-million dollar blockbusters. Indie games are generally very shoddy: there are only a few that compare to the mainstream equivalents. Games need expensive things like graphics engines, AI programming and 3D modelling to compete. As such, the industry is dominated by the rich publishers and developers who have a complete creative stranglehold on ouput.
2. Games are not art. Games can be objectively poor. Crashes, bugs, bad AI, broken level design, features that don't work properly. There's no interpretation in any of these. They're broken. Games are still technology first, art a distant second.
3. Narrative is not demographic. The reader, the viewer, the listener don't get to decide what happens next. Narrative is a semiotic system of careful arrangement and contrast. Games that are actually fun have to hand control to the player for large periods, which is largely irreconcilable with good storytelling. There must always be rigidity in the story. Even in Deus Ex, you only get to choose one of several pre-defined plot paths. It is not truly fluid. The storytelling happens outside of your control.
Most of the story-heavy games: MGS, Final Fantasy and all JRPGs, are absolutely no fun because you hardly spend any time playing them. The games that are most fun hardly have any plot, because they give you more control and freedom.
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1. And movies don't suffer from the same ailments?
2. It's a form of story telling, a form of expression. That is the definition of art.
3. And books and movies are? You get to decide what happens next? |
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| Schadenfreude |
so i was right.
u look like a ninja gayden. |
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| Fledz |
| I am definitely the gayest ninja in the village. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
1. And movies don't suffer from the same ailments? |
Not all movies need SFX, you know. You can make a good movie for peanuts.
| quote: | | 2. It's a form of story telling, a form of expression. That is the definition of art. |
Wrong. Storytelling is not always art, art is not always storytelling. And this thread is "a form of expression" but this thread is not art.
| quote: | | 3. And books and movies are? You get to decide what happens next? |
Read it properly, before you hammer out your frantic riposte. Books and movies are not democracies. A videogame has to be. If you don't let the player have any control of what happens in the game, the player isn't actually playing it. |
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| Omega_Blue |
| quote: | Originally posted by Schadenfreude
video games are only fun in groups. They can be a great way to wind down the night while having a bit of fun and indulging in random shenanigans.
playing them solo for 46 hours at a time is kinda gay though. |
not always true, but i tend to agree with this. i was a huge gamer as a kid and through high school- i still love video games and still play them but it's usually only for an hour or two before i go to bed, on rare occasions where i can't sleep. haven't bought a new console since.. well, ever. all i have is a modded xbox- playing tetris for an hour is enough entertainment for me. |
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| lücid |
| reading this thread has given me the urge to play video games... and i don't have any anymore. :( |
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| Arbiter |
| quote: | Originally posted by lücid
reading this thread has given me the urge to play video games... and i don't have any anymore. :( |
yeah all my s in storage
oh well that's what zsnes is for |
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| Omega_Blue |
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| Schadenfreude |
| [[[the new gta is awesome]]] |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
2000, 1998, 1995, 1998, 1997. All made over a decade ago, back when I actually gave a about games.
Although you've named two of the five games I mentioned. |
how can you comment on today's games if you haven't played them? the idea that stories were better years and years ago just isn't true. RPGs for instance have much better (interactive) story lines today than at any time previously.
play games like bioshock or batman and tell me games aren't art ;) |
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| pkcRAISTLIN |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I've never seen any evidence to back up that stat. In my experience the average age is 11-25. And even then, the games themselves aim for the lower end of the spectrum. |
| quote: |
The Interactive Australia 2009 report on the state of gaming in Australian culture has been launched this morning, and the stats affirm what gamers already know — the stereotypes are complete rubbish. Here’s a quick sampler that busts some myths that tie closely into our ongoing effort to get Michael Atkinson to realise his position does not reflect the reality of the modern gaming landscape. We’ll try to drill a little deeper in coming days:
- Average age of gamers is now 30; average age of non-gamers is 40.
- 88% of households now have a game device, not including mobiles.
- 61% have MORE than one — consoles are now dominant.
- 54% male, 46% female. The gender gap is disappearing fast.
- Over half of all parents play games with their kids.
- 63% of Australians still don’t know there is no R18+ for games.
- 91% of ALL Australians are in favour of an R18+ classification.
- 92% of parents are aware of the games their kids are playing. |
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2008/10/ho...alian_gamer_30/ |
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