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more *******ing about 'tech house' and 'grand theft culture' (pg. 12)
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
One thing's for sure: Parrish is completely sugar-coating black producers by claiming they're too close-knit to steal from each and nobody with any cred uses the same sample sources as another black producer. Tell that to the ing Winstons.
Also, I've made the argument to nefardec before that black music is not hermetically sealed and culturally "pure". House and techno were strongly influenced by a variety of white musicians such as Kraftwerk, Giorgio Moroder and many European synth pioneers. For example, Cybotron - Clear samples two separate Kraftwerk tracks, but there's no credit give on the sleeve notes. If Parrish thinks "this music like all other music is originated on african/black experience" he's talking bull of the highest calibre. Notions of "black music" and "white music" are reductive and unrealistic because the two have relentlessly inspired/stolen from each other in the last century of pop music. |
Well, I admitted that much in this thread. But it's still George Clinton and Kraftwerk meeting in an elevator, and not John Denver and Kraftwerk.
Re: Theo Parrish: He was asked a single question in a one-question interview, so yeah, his answer is going to be kind of loaded. Black people also rip each other off and try to claim credibility that they don't own. If, however, they do it and try to claim more 'blackness' for themselves, then I think it starts to become racist. Theo comes across as pretty paranoid and angry, but I'm not going to blame him, I don't know his life story. However, I do think it's important to consider his point of view to get a total view of the situation. My own personal outlook on things is that there tend to be many truths in a situation, many ways of looking at something or reading history. I get annoyed when people stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that.
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
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Sounds like you just don't like his music. That's fine, but I think you are arbitrarily assigning some kind of objective level of importance to different figures in black american music based on your taste, which is silly. I think Theo Parrish is a master at what he does, and what he does is to channel black musical tradition into the form of the house/techno dj set and 12" techno dance record with a very unique sound signature. His music is sculptural, evocative, and archeological. |
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| dj_alfi |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
Lol, I was wondering when someone would say that. |
I'm assuming i hit the nail on the head, seeing as you did not deny it. |
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| shaw |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_alfi
I'm assuming i hit the nail on the head, seeing as you did not deny it. |
He probably just has you ignored, too. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by shaw
He probably just has you ignored, too. |
Mom told me not to talk to trolls. |
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| dj_alfi |
Nobody is trolling here.
And the fact that you still haven't denied it, perplexeses me more and more. I think I might have stumbled upon something really big here; an underground anti-semitic techno legion from Brooklyn :eyes:
brb guys, i'm going undercover! keep the presses runnning! |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
Sounds like you just don't like his music. That's fine, but I think you are arbitrarily assigning some kind of objective level of importance to different figures in black american music based on your taste, which is silly. I think Theo Parrish is a master at what he does, and what he does is to channel black musical tradition into the form of the house/techno dj set and 12" techno dance record with a very unique sound signature. His music is sculptural, evocative, and archeological. |
Marketing ad copy isn't going to put him in league with the likes of Charlie Parker. It's not that he doesn't have good production sensibility but there's a difference between arranging samples to loop while moving the filter-cutoff over a period of time and compositional arrangement of live instruments, never-minding recording sessions a la' Kind of Blue. Intellectually, it's a completely different ball-park. Even if he did, somehow, measure up to the hubris it takes to espouse his ridiculous opinion, it still wouldn't negate the remainder of my argument. That he has a Miles Davis temperament without the corresponding chops, in conjunction with that stupid rant, just makes him all-the-more buffoonish. |
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| nefardec |
| quote: | Originally posted by dj_alfi
Nobody is trolling here.
And the fact that you still haven't denied it, perplexeses me more and more. I think I might have stumbled upon something really big here; an underground anti-semitic techno legion from Brooklyn :eyes:
brb guys, i'm going undercover! keep the presses runnning! |
I could make a list of dozens of people I think are doing the same thing and this guy might be the only jewish guy on it.
One more to the ignore list. |
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| dj_alfi |
| quote: | Originally posted by nefardec
One more to the ignore list. |
:rolleyes:
all im trying to say is that my is just about as far fetched as yours. it's called Chicago Days/ Detroit Nights because that is where the music originated you moron. it's just tribal beats and disco ffs. |
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| mehta |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
without the corresponding chops |
for some reason out of all the ridiculous nonsense in this thread, this comment attracts my attention ...
miles davis didn't have mad chops - you can hear him struggling in his bebop sessions. he was heavily criticized for starting cool jazz because it was anti-chops
maybe you mean something other than "chops" here, but it has a very specific meaning for horn players |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by mehta
for some reason out of all the ridiculous nonsense in this thread, this comment attracts my attention ...
miles davis didn't have mad chops - you can hear him struggling in his bebop sessions. he was heavily criticized for starting cool jazz because it was anti-chops
maybe you mean something other than "chops" here, but it has a very specific meaning for horn players |
Perhaps I should have used skill?
I knew I should have gone with Charles Mingus instead but I was thinking in terms of a someone who compares, however roughly and remotely, to Parrish. Ellington, like Mingus, is too ludicrous of a comparison. Davis still bests Parrish in terms of his ability with his instrument and music.
Still, your point is taken. I had no idea how he was apparently regarded by his contemporaries and/or peers and would love, for my own reading pleasure, a citation on that.
EDIT: I would add that in some subtle ways, to Parrish's credit, the style of the songs I've heard by Parrish seem, to my ears, somewhat reminiscent of Davis's. |
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| mehta |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Perhaps I should have used skill?
I knew I should have gone with Charles Mingus instead but I was thinking in terms of a someone who compares, however roughly and remotely, to Parrish. Ellington, like Mingus, is too ludicrous of a comparison. Davis still bests Parrish in terms of his ability with his instrument and music.
Still, your point is taken. I had no idea how he was apparently regarded by his contemporaries and/or peers and would love, for my own reading pleasure, a citation on that.
EDIT: I would add that in some subtle ways, to Parrish's credit, the style of the songs I've heard by Parrish seem, to my ears, somewhat reminiscent of Davis's. |
OK, sorry for the harsh words!
In the liner notes to the re-issue of birth of the cool the original live show is described as a failure ... it took a number of years before "cool jazz" was accepted by critics and especially audiences. In the 40s there was an emphasis on virtuosic playing & clubgoers expected to hear bebop. It wasn't until after Charlie Parker's death that thing really started to shift ... there are lots of jazz histories with different takes on this but it's pretty common knowledge that the Miles Davis Nonet was a failure at the time. Interestingly, Gil Evans created the original arrangements & held the first "cool" jam sessions at his house in the mid-late 40s ... Miles Davis was just a participant but billed himself as the frontman when they started performing live.
Anyways, there is no excuse for being a paranoid egotistical nutter but Theo Parrish is one of the best DJs on the planet. It should be obvious that "skill" isn't really a factor here, more like knowledge and taste. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by mehta
OK, sorry for the harsh words!
In the liner notes to the re-issue of birth of the cool the original live show is described as a failure ... it took a number of years before "cool jazz" was accepted by critics and especially audiences. In the 40s there was an emphasis on virtuosic playing & clubgoers expected to hear bebop. It wasn't until after Charlie Parker's death that thing really started to shift ... there are lots of jazz histories with different takes on this but it's pretty common knowledge that the Miles Davis Nonet was a failure at the time. Interestingly, Gil Evans created the original arrangements & held the first "cool" jam sessions at his house in the mid-late 40s ... Miles Davis was just a participant but billed himself as the frontman when they started performing live. |
Thanks for the clarification on this. I'll have to check that out.
| quote: | Originally posted by mehta
Anyways, there is no excuse for being a paranoid egotistical nutter but Theo Parrish is one of the best DJs on the planet. It should be obvious that "skill" isn't really a factor here, more like knowledge and taste. |
The good thing about nefardec's quixotic charge is that Parrish would have been unknown to me had he not made it and backed it up with the still implausible quote. The more music I hear about and information I read, regarding Parrish, the more I'm actually liking a lot of his ideas and I'd actually love to hear some the guy's live sets - on a live PA with him playing.
It's highly discouraging to find his thinking so bent on whatever "persecution" he perceives. Maybe it's my own hang-up, but the association between that and his music tempers any appreciation of the latter with a harmonically dissonant artifact so repugnant that it's disquieting. |
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