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Egypt Situation (pg. 12)
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
The people wouldnt let a 30 year dictator get his way |
Not after the 30th year, at least! |
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| Lira |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
The people wouldnt let a 30 year dictator get his way, what makes you think they will be brainwashed by a fundementalist? |
Well, Kevin's caution isn't entirely unjustified. Maybe it is if you consider the environment but logically there is a tiny reason for concern.
You see, although I don't think there's any reason to be alarmed, it's always possible that those millions wanted Mubby out because he wasn't a theocratic despot. I reckon they kicked him out for other reasons, but that's a logical possibility nonetheless. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by EgosXII
also, the US has never cared about democracy in other countries: They've always preferred dealing with monarchs, ESPECIALLY in the middle east.
It's lovely spouting democracy to the press, but whenever a democratic government comes to power there's a chance a 'wrong person' will be elected, and the US won't have any of that. They like leaders they can set up long relations with.
that went down in Iran is largely because of US meddling (or lack of) during the Cold War. Do you know why they're considered a 'terrorist state' by the US? |
It's funny how we seem to fail at considering history when facing our current predicaments. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Well, Kevin's caution isn't entirely unjustified. Maybe it is if you consider the environment but logically there is a tiny reason for concern.
You see, although I don't think there's any reason to be alarmed, it's always possible that those millions wanted Mubby out because he wasn't a theocratic despot. I reckon they kicked him out for other reasons, but that's a logical possibility nonetheless. |
It's entirely unjustified fear mongering. 2 weeks of constant protesting and the only violence that came was from mubarak's thugs.
They want a fairly governed country which will give better living standards. I haven't heard anyone mention anything about relgious rule.
A theocracy requires a strong religious leader, so far we have seen none. At least give something to work with instead of vague speculation and dismal statistics. |
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| EgosXII |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
It's funny how we seem to fail at considering history when facing our current predicaments. |
especially when that's the only use it has for us :( |
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| EgosXII |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
It's entirely unjustified fear mongering. 2 weeks of constant protesting and the only violence that came was from mubarak's thugs.
They want a fairly governed country which will give better living standards. I haven't heard anyone mention anything about relgious rule.
A theocracy requires a strong religious leader, so far we have seen none. At least give something to work with instead of vague speculation and dismal statistics. |
it's looking a bit like an oligarchy atm.. see how it goes if they manage, or want full elections :) |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by EgosXII
This is such a ridiculous idea. Democracy as you experience it is NOT democracy. Look at the founding of any true democracy and there is violence and revolution. the people have to DEMAND power, and freedom before they deserve it, and before its real. The kind of setup the US has? Nobody even votes, and when they do, what are they voting for? Once every four years, for a 'leader/dictator' who makes every decision for them. |
Please give us an example of a "true" democracy. Or a "true" communism. Or a "true" dictatorship. No actual execution of governance has ever lived up to the textbook ideals, despite the torrents of propagandist takeovers and first-glance history assessments.
Like everything else, the result is a competition between separate entities. More rights for the government mean less rights for the people. More rights for the people mean less rights for corporations, etc. The people may DEMAND some sort of "freedom" for a time, but they will be all too eager to hand it over (leave it open) for another hierarchy to install itself and designate rights, re-establish jurisprudence, etc.
Freedom, as you suppose it, does not exist. Not in life.
| quote: | | Then look at Egypt. The people have taken to the streets, and taken the state in their own hands. They are directly controlling the direction they want their country to go in. |
There is someone in control? Who? "The people"? Like they are some sort of hive-brain collective that just motions its sovereignty with ease?
Someone has to organize elections to play out this "democracy"- who will elect them for that job?
Democracy is an experiment that takes a government establishment to grant a voice to the clamoring throngs of an uneducated majority so that they can grant their government the ability to grant them their voice. It's tautology. As Franklin put it, "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch." There's a second, more important, half to that quote, but it's rather a can of worms.
| quote: | | That is democracy. Don't be so naive and PC- you don't want any violence? You obviously know nothing about history or politics, and definitely know nothing about the foundations of democracy. Its horrible how many people boast about democracy and freedom, but have no idea about what it is, and what it costs. |
Everything is violence. What price have you paid for your supposed freedom?
My point is that Egypt, right now, is just a mess of idealistic youths frolicking about amidst the intoxication of usurping one's authoritative canopy. They swing among the branches - and indeed their malign alpha has been ousted - but now they attract only the sympathy of nations that are sold upon the idea of 'freedom' being some sort of ideal, and democracy being the most expedient route to assuring that distribution. We are inundated with this news because when you sell the notion of freedom to people -between brief commercial breaks- they are free to choose which air freshener looks the best or which vehicle tires smell the best, etc. The misdirection of capitalistic enterprise corrals people into their consumer pens, their idealistic tribes, and it is not difficult at all to understand why this entire revolt has been a feeding frenzy for media conglomerates looking to infect their self-perpetuating egos.
To believe the Egyptian people are now free is to be fooled. The "cost" will be spread out amongst several payments. But that's just life as we know it, even if we'd rather be "naive and PC". |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| Goddamn, I hate freedom. in' freedom. |
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| EddieZilker |
Not even free checking for mubark. |
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| Zyklon_Jay |
| even if it was true that Egyptians wanted a theocracy...guess what it is their country. America can have all of the opinions on this as they would like, but should focus on fixing their own fucking country that is in the ter instead of sticking their nose where it is not wanted. |
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| ZuLi |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
and your poll based on a sample size of 1000 (which didnt discriminate betweeen rural and urban areas [you're going to ask the undeducated farmer what he thinks and hold his political option at equal weight to a student/ businessman who is actually more likely to vote]) is justifiable?
http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/...mber-2-2010.pdf
theres your data.
and 250,000. From what i heard it was in the millions, and not a sign of extremism. The people wouldnt let a 30 year dictator get his way, what makes you think they will be brainwashed by a fundementalist? |
3 Million on Feb 8th. And whenever someone would start talking religion, everyone would boo them or throw them out of the protest even....Chants for a secular state all over too.. |
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