|
Christianity (pg. 16)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| Lilith |
 |
|
|
| Blake |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
I wouldn't say it's got anything to do with mental laziness.
Some people actually believe it makes more sense to believe in God than not (I lost count of how many times I've had to tell baffled believers what I did and didn't believe in). Others have been told all their life that you can't be good without adhering to that one set of laws and, given how reasonable the 10 commandments are, they never felt the need to reject it. And so on...
But, yeah, I started having doubts still in elementary school, and I couldn't believe adults believed the stuff they did. I was such a smart-arse troll as a kid... but then I learned I didn't know everything :) |
From my vantage point, it looks like lethargy. It's easier to be told the way in which things are, and just believe it, rather than accept the fact that we really don't know anything, and that we're all just making this up as we go along, and that there's not necessarily a benevolent protector, or designer, and that there's a chance that when we die that's it, so to speak. I think that the prospect of uncertainty that rests not just with every moment, but that is inherent in existence itself is absolutely frightening to people. I think it's much more challenging to take all of this for what it is (and to be clear, we have absolutely no idea of what any of this is!), wrestle with it, and come to your own personal understanding as to the order of things (or at the very least come to a point in which you're mature enough to acknowledge the mystery of it all, and accept the possibility that none of this may have any overarching meaning whatsoever) than it is to just sit back and swallow an "everything's going to be okay" pill. At least science offers an explanation while openly admitting that it isn't absolute, leaving everything open to be challenged.
You make some valid points with regards to some aspects of Christianity (etc) seeming reasonable enough not to need to question. Most (all??) organized religions simply ask us to be "good" or decent toward one another. This is not what I have a problem with (though, in all fairness, I don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with questioning the need for us to be good to one another). It's most of the other stuff that really grinds my gears; the guilt, the eternal flames, the punishment, the indoctrination, the idolatry, "original sin", the apocalypse, the concept of a God that is so low that it possesses even the basest of human characteristics like anger, jealousy, spite, and susceptibility to things like flattery and praise. Perhaps what may bring me to the assumption of "mental laziness" the most is the fact that Christianity (and indeed the spectrum of western religions) is authoritarian, rather than humanist.
I was trolling earlier, not so much because my younger brother found Christ, but because when I ask him about, or make valid arguments about the historical context of both biblical writings and writings from the Torah, he knows nothing about them. When I try to have analytical discussions with him about critical meanings that are lost in the old testament, when translated from Hebrew to English, he'll hear none of it from me. He doesn't seem to know much at all about this religion he's chosen, which tells me that he really didn't put much thought into it. This points back to mental laziness. Most Christians that I've encountered are simply unwilling to go down certain logical, valid paths of discussion, because of the challenges they know they'll encounter. But when it comes to dogmatically proclaiming things, you guys are first in line!
Which reminds me; my brother didn't just convert to Christianity. He became a ing evangelist ; the most insecure subdivision of the Christian faith! I blame television.
And for the record, I'm not an atheist; logic permits it. Nor am I agnostic, although that's at least more logically sound. Not all of the arguments I make are in line with my own personal beliefs, but I believe they are things which should be considered. |
|
|
| Mattsanity. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Desiderata
I won't go so far as to say I lost total believe that there is a God very young but I basically did in a round about way have a lot of questions that peoples answers never satisfied me. My Grandma was Lutheran and would take me to this Lutheran Church every Sunday when I was 5 or 6. I couldn't start Kindergarten at my local Elementary School because they had a rule back in the early 80's that you had to be 5 or 6 years of age by October or November in order to start school that in January (this was before we had Pre-K programs and year round school schedules) at schools here in SA anyway. So my birthday being in January, I had to wait an extra year to start but it wasn't a big deal then because a lot of kids were born in later months in the schools eyes such as I.
So I would go to this Lutheran Church and my favorite part was the cracker and wine. Yes, they would ask my Grandma for permission to receive the blood of Christ. It was the best part. I never got buzzed but as a kid it was the only fun part.
Finally, after a month of going every Sunday or so, they told my Grandma that it would be better for me to be with the kids in Sunday School while the grown-ups listened to the Preacher.
My first day they gave us God coloring books and I started colouring Jesus' sheep black. This started this girl who looked like she was dressed for a part in Little House on the Prairie starting questioning me about the color black being evil and I can't quite remember the exact story but she told the Sunday School teacher and she came over and started asking me questions about my faith in God. I said something like if there is a God who created God because to me at that time I figured everything had a beginning, so how could something just have been always there and never had a progression to it and it also being all knowing and such. The teacher talked to me for awhile and I wasn't really clever or anything but I said something about how come God doesn't talk back to me when I talk to him and he doesn't answer my prayers or something. I guess even though I wasn't a super smart kid or cleverly spoken I had a keen sense that although I believed there was a God at that age, I still felt there were a lot of questions I just wasn't buying into in what they were teaching us about his existence.
The teacher went and told someone and my Grandma came in the School room of the Church and got me. She grabbed my arm tight and pulled me out saying something to the teacher. They told her I was evil and she was mad at me for part of the walk home then started talking out loud saying my Grandson is not evil something something something and we never went back to that Church or any other.
On another note:
I'm glad I wasn't Catholic because I remember in Middle School all my friends had to take CCD classes. Don't know what they are about but I know it has to do with being Catholic. |
There are certainly a lot of churches with cliche sunday schools. Those teachers are a huge factor when it comes to a child's decision to remain a christian or not as he gets older. You were a prodigy who experienced a jilted generation of uneducated religious adults. They love to tickle the ears of young christians by making Jesus a marvel-like superhero. |
|
|
| Vector A |
| quote: | Originally posted by Moongoose
That was kind of my thinking, even if we put aside what we might now consider our little joys like chocolate cakes and lesbian porn, and say that heaven is just pure distilled delight and you dont have to bother with any of those earthly concepts. How long before it becomes monotonous. |
Yeah, heaven always seemed to me like wireheading, and hell like its inverse. A life of pure pleasure without any sort of risk or effort or struggle at all seems like it would feel pointless. Then again, maybe the sense of "purpose" and "struggle" and "meaning" could also be pumped into your head, too. So you could feel the joy of Olympic athletes who have just won their event, of the climber on top of Mount Everest, of a scientist figuring out a groundbreaking theory -- all while sitting on your ass and not even thinking much. I mean, since we are talking about God and he can do anything, right?
:nervous: |
|
|
| Swamper |
Specific religions aside, I think what everyone needs to become more aware of is their spiritual side and how much energy they exhaust on a daily basis just spreading negativity or being a downer in general. This goes for everything, from your jobs to your relationships, if it doesn't 'feel' right then it isn't... we're often misled by money or lust because that's what we're fed in the Western world.
It completely baffles me that in this day and age where people have the internet to access tons of information (and misinformation) that they choose to be indoctrinated by the likes of TMZ and other useless trash. To each their own, as I've always said, but I'd like to return to a spirit of optimism vs one of doom & gloom... though I don't blame people for being negative considering the middle class is eroding away and companies like Monsanto think ing with our food is a good thing. |
|
|
| Blake |
| quote: | Originally posted by Vector A
Yeah, heaven always seemed to me like wireheading, and hell like its inverse. A life of pure pleasure without any sort of risk or effort or struggle at all seems like it would feel pointless. Then again, maybe the sense of "purpose" and "struggle" and "meaning" could also be pumped into your head, too. So you could feel the joy of Olympic athletes who have just won their event, of the climber on top of Mount Everest, of a scientist figuring out a groundbreaking theory -- all while sitting on your ass and not even thinking much. I mean, since we are talking about God and he can do anything, right?
:nervous: |
On the topic of God being able to do anything, here's something else that continues to puzzle me:
If God is omniscient, omnipotent, and indeed the source of all things, then God quite necessarily exists outside of (or beyond) time. To such an entity, all events would appear as if they've already taken place. If God knows what you're going to do in life, before you're even born, why are reward and punishment factors at all?
On the other hand, if we really do have absolute free will, and God does not know what's going to happen, and does not exist outside of time then, quite necessarily, God is not the highest power. |
|
|
| Intellekshual |
| There is God to the point that one exists because it is believed in, but it is not a person, creator, or divine entity. I can most closely equate it to an excuse. |
|
|
| srussell0018 |
| You speak with quite a level of certainty about something that nobody has the slightest clue about. |
|
|
| Alex |
| My biggest problem with the idea of God is that I believe in a deity, right, but how can the religions of the world take that deity and transform it into a personal God? |
|
|
| Intellekshual |
| quote: | Originally posted by Alex
My biggest problem with the idea of God is that I believe in a deity, right, but how can the religions of the world take that deity and transform it into a personal God? |
As I said, it's an excuse to make moneyz by cashing in on the sheepish masses oh so eager to believe death holds something other than decay. |
|
|
| Intellekshual |
Having allowed everyone to waste far too much thought on responding to this troll thread, I shall now destroy it by quoting a Will Smith movie.
"1500 years ago, everybody 'knew' that the Earth was the center of the universe. 500 years ago, everybody 'knew' that the Earth was flat. And 15 minutes ago, you 'knew' that humans were alone on this planet. Imagine what you'll "know" tomorrow." |
|
|
|
|
