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1995, 2005... 2015? (pg. 10)
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| SYSTEM-J |
| This thread has more cross-fire than Syria. |
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| Paradox Lost |
Ho' , "International techno megastar comes to New York in order to promote new artist album: ignites North American minimal* scene." Are you suggesting that this was an exploding sound amongst American clubs because Hawtin played it at one? Or does this only tell me that foreign techno darlings brought their trends with them? Obviously there's only an extent whereby one can quantify something as 'hot' within the scope of an entire continent, but if it's correct to say that this was exploding in the UK in 2005, then it's enough of a basis to say it certainly wasn't until it got Dubfired out around 2007 that it began taking off here.
*mnml, since I know the stylistic distinction had given you trouble in the past. |
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| wotyzoid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Paradox Lost
Ho' , "International techno megastar comes to New York in order to promote new artist album: ignites North American minimal* scene." Are you suggesting that this was an exploding sound amongst American clubs because Hawtin played it at one? Or does this only tell me that foreign techno darlings brought their trends with them? Obviously there's only an extent whereby one can quantify something as 'hot' within the scope of an entire continent, but if it's correct to say that this was exploding in the UK in 2005, then it's enough of a basis to say it certainly wasn't until it got Dubfired out around 2007 that it began taking off here.
*mnml, since I know the stylistic distinction had given you trouble in the past. |
What the are you talking about suggested explosion??? You just said it wan't enough of a thing to be a thing, WHEN IT CLEARLY WAS A THING. |
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| wotyzoid |
| It's like explaining why Santa Claus isn't real to a 3 year old. |
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| Paradox Lost |
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
What the are you talking about suggested explosion??? You just said it wan't enough of a thing to be a thing, WHEN IT CLEARLY WAS A THING. |
Cool yeah are you really about to make me separate out the rhetorical implication of 'thing' in the sense that I used it? ing New Jersey. I called it a 'thing' to the extent that I acknowledge it existed, but stopped short of accepting it as a 'thing'- like a thing that was 'going on'- because it wasn't one that Stateside producers/DJ's/clubs/promoters/soccer moms had yet latched on to (yes, even in spite of what The Great Cielo Hawtin Affair of 2005 would tell you).
And you do realize that the most self-undermining idea behind your argument is that it suggests the ridiculously implausible notion that the US and the UK were on the same page at the same time in dance music trends? |
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| wotyzoid |
| I'm done, I can't do this to myself anymore. Jack, you're on your own. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Paradox Lost
And you do realize that the most self-undermining idea behind your argument is that it suggests the ridiculously implausible notion that the US and the UK were on the same page at the same time in dance music trends? |
To be fair, I don't think the UK can claim first dibs on the minimal trend. Think about it: how many of the biggest minimal DJs, labels and records were actually British? Most of the big hitters were German, and almost all of those who weren't ended up moving to Berlin anyway. The crucial difference between minimal and "mnml" is that the former was the child of Detroit and the likes of Robert Hood, whereas the latter was the German descendent that mutated through the gene-pool of the Detroit-Berlin techno alliance.
As I said at the start of the thread, the mid-00s saw a transition of influence from the UK super-club culture to Germany and Berlin in particular. 2005 could arguably be seen as the crucial moment of transition. I think this review by Philip Sherburne from 2005 captures that very well, notably the second paragraph:
| quote: | New Year's Day, 2003. At a semi-luxury hotel a few kilometers from the coast, a sprawling complex of balconied buildings and a swimming pool nestled next to a stand of trees, a few hundred ravers in summer duds-- some in dirty Diesels, some in bikinis, and all eyes hidden behind enormous, smoke-colored shades-- pivot and sway while the last molecules of MDMA sweat their way out of their systems. On a stage facing the pool, a skinny young man with a blond mane swigs champagne from the bottle while he nudges absently at a computer mouse; his own massive eyeshield tosses off disco glints that mirror the flashes of light that go tearing up the firelines between bass and space in his music.
It's every Balearic cliché at once, except that this isn't Ibiza, it's Reñaca, Chile; and the laptop jockey isn't Sasha van Oakenweed but a skinny Finn named Luomo, née Sasu Ripatti, best known until not long before as Vladislav Delay-- a former free-jazz drummer who made the leap to Chain Reaction-styled "heroin house" before being crowned prince of clicks + cuts. The event is notable for several reasons, among them the globalization of European leisure culture; but the real significance here concerns the ongoing conversion of tight-lipped minimalism into something self-consciously sexy and sophisticated and Ecstasy-friendly. It's the preface to an ongoing evolution that is only coming to fruition in 2005, when the Sasha van Oakenweeds of the world pepper their mixes with tracks from Kompakt and Traum, and Creamfields' beachside raves feature the likes of Ellen Allien and Blackstrobe alongside Deep Dish and Carl Cox. In many ways, all this began with Luomo's 2000 debut, Vocalcity, reissued this month on Ripatti's own Huume label. |
http://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/4929-vocalcity/
As I remember it, minimal invaded the UK via Ibiza. It wasn't spawned on UK dancefloors but imported to us. It was the first time since 1990 that the dominant style of dance music wasn't homegrown. It was the moment the Brits slid into second place after 15 years of dominating world-wide clubbing trends.
The first time I heard mnml (as opposed to minimal) was on this CD:
https://www.discogs.com/Loco-Dice-M.../release/522798
Interesting that this CD came out exactly one week before that Pitchfork review, which lest we forget was written by an American journalist for a highly influential American website. |
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| Woony |
| In regards to the Luomo review, I think looking back, Force In. und Mille Plateaux were probably the most influential labels for the whole clicky "mnml" sound. Not only did they basically invent the whole clicky, hyper-digital aesthetic but they also prominently featured the direct precursor to mnml, micro house. Of course Kompakt was the more influential for the actual dance floor trends but I think Force Inc / Mille Plateaux really laid the groundwork for the jump in the all-digital 2000s. The guy who ran them, Achim Szepanski, is also fairly interesting, he was bringing poststructuralist theory into techno in 1994, a time when 99% of the scene was considered with how much Es you can take in one night or fast you can make a 909 go. Also as probably the only techno label ever, they were being watched by the german state for some of the political messages on their records. |
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| wotyzoid |
| quote: | Originally posted by Paradox Lost
And you do realize that the most self-undermining idea behind your argument is that it suggests the ridiculously implausible notion that the US and the UK were on the same page at the same time in dance music trends? |
It's funny because two of the tracks I posted are from American artists, one of them from detroit. 2005. Keep digging that hole. Dance music culture since the internet is a global culture, once it's a thing, it's a ing thing, and there's no going back. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
Yeah, fully agreed. "Mnml" comes from micro-house / clicks and cuts, which in turn came from stuff like Pole, Oval and Basic Channel, so the point it split from Robert Hood and Jeff Mills would be as far back as '93-95. Simon Reynolds talks extensively about Szepanski in Energy Flash. A techno honcho with an interest in critical theory is obviously mana from heaven for someone like Reynolds. Christ only knows what some of the people in this thread would make of him.
Hawtin is interesting as one of the few who started off making the original North American minimal and then championed the German version a decade later. |
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| kosmotika |
| quote: | Originally posted by wotyzoid
I don't give a if any of you listen to trance. But to come in here and act like gods of the underground, like you old ass herbs know anything about club culture today, that pisses ME off, especially if all you talk about is trance, because it's like Jack said, if you're not out there you're just ing ignorant and wallowing in your ignorance gives you a very false sense of arrogance. And that's what we have here in TA, the people who have moved on, and the people that are ing stuck, but still claim to have a finger on the pulse, diluting any productive conversation we could be having about ACTUAL club culture TODAY and the music TODAY. |
Oh just piss off. That's like saying "The Godfather? You shouldn't like that, it's old. You're an outdated idiot if you watch that . I've moved on! I only watch like Adam Sandler's Pixels!"
Go listen to Guetta or Aoki or some other oversaturated mediocre commercial garbage if you want to adopt that attitude and off of tranceaddict because you are seven shades of stupid on a sunday.
I'd love it if I never had to see another one of your inane babblings again. Just plain off from this website and find a different hobby like sports or card games or drinking bleach, you absolute miserable ****. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by kosmotika
Oh just piss off. That's like saying "The Godfather? You shouldn't like that, it's old. |
The Godfather is a complex masterpiece of cinema, which kinda clashes with your earlier spiel about the joy of simple, direct cheesy pap. I feel a more apt analogy for your tastes would be, say, Police Academy. |
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