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Canadian Political Parties (pg. 9)
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| baystreetboi |
| quote: | Originally posted by b4k-oz
So I'm curious....who here, thinks they will be voting Conservative regardless of what you've learned and heard about them?
And...who's changed their minds? |
I'm more concerned about what we HAVEN'T learned about Uncle Paul and his friends.... what other hidden "gems" haven't been disclosed / revealed yet that we can look ahead to over the summer / fall... (the fact he pushed the election when he did makes me think he wants to get it out of the way before some more unfavourable items get the public spotlight on them as well). |
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| SiM PeµRf |
| im voting quebecois cause i'm one...I know it wont be elected....but its sure I wont vote for Liberals....theyve done enough around.....PARTIE BLEUE SHOULD WIN!! |
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| b4k-oz |
| quote: | Originally posted by baystreetboi
I'm more concerned about what we HAVEN'T learned about Uncle Paul and his friends.... what other hidden "gems" haven't been disclosed / revealed yet that we can look ahead to over the summer / fall... (the fact he pushed the election when he did makes me think he wants to get it out of the way before some more unfavourable items get the public spotlight on them as well). |
Oh just let it go.....concentrate on who else you'd like to see there and stop festering on the negatives. What's done is done....this isn't a reality tvshow, it's our life...isn't it obvious that it's time for a change. The question is, who will it change to?
I'd like to know if TA's even care enuf to vote. Way too many don't and I'm hoping that will change. |
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| SiM PeµRf |
| majority of people lack of info...thats why they vote stupidly....for myself....I vote stupid cause im from quebec and our opinions dont really count since parti quebecois will never be elected... |
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| baystreetboi |
| quote: | Originally posted by b4k-oz
Oh just let it go.....concentrate on who else you'd like to see there and stop festering on the negatives. What's done is done....this isn't a reality tvshow, it's our life...isn't it obvious that it's time for a change. The question is, who will it change to?
I'd like to know if TA's even care enuf to vote. Way too many don't and I'm hoping that will change. |
Stop festering on all the negatives? But just a few posts ago you brought up all the "negatives" about how the Conservative party's past wasn't "clean" by suggesting Mulroney still has his fingers in the pudding. How is that any different? By your own words, "what's done is done."
Perhaps you and other's weren't happy with the changes made over the period 10-20 years ago (I for one support many of them)... and that's the reason the PC's were tossed. Now I say history has repeated itself over the past 10 years and it's time to turf these bums.
Harper for one does scare me to some degree, particularly as I'm more of a red Tory, but I think many of the policy releases over the recent days and in the days ahead from the Conservative party will demonstrate that the new party is much more moderate than the previous Reform / Alliance parties. That being said, I say give them a chance this time 'round! |
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| Allegory |
Us poor progressive lefties :(
I don't get involved in political discussions unless it's in person or amongst people I know, and I haven't had the chance to meet a lot of people on this forum yet. Well, maybe that's not true. I've partied with many but don't know people well enough to have an objective conversation about politics, sociology, philosophy, and semiotics...
...except for you ecko! Wherever you are?
:D |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by b4k-oz
Voting Conservative? What the Conservative have done to Canada:
Historically, when Conservatives took office, Canada underwent a recession.
Our last Conservative was Brian Mulroney (84-93), who came to office after Trudeau and embarked on policies designed to undo Trudeau's vision of Canada.
Inspired by US R. Reagan and British M.Thatcher, his govt. tried to reduce the deficits, cut back on social and cultural policies, rebuild ties with business, and privatize government enterprises. The most dramatic shift was the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) which came into effect January 1, 1994 (was written to not be repealed). It failed by a combination of an overvalued Cdn dollar, corporate restructuring, a new goods and services tax (1991), and a severe recession that led to a decline in domestic manufacturing, a massive loss of jobs, and cross-border shopping by Canadians.
Conservative disaffection rose with their decision to award a lucrative defence contract to Montreal instead of Winnipeg, and lingering animosity over the implementation of the GST.
Truth be told, the Conservatives ran the deficit to record-breaking levels and skyrocketed Canada's national debt from $170 billion CDN to a staggering $530 billion, which is where it currently stands. He did this in only 8 years.
The Liberals in '93 walked in to economic shambles and somehow managed to balance the budget in only 4 years. They did cut some funding to health care, but the maximum they slashed from any 1 year was not significant. They consolidated government ministries, and eliminated waste in the federal govt.
Canada (before the U.S.) entered its 1st surplus in '98. For all those Paul Martin haters…Martin was Canada's finance minister from '93 to 2002.
Now I understand you hear the media hype about Paul Martin and his being a thief. Perhaps you’re right to believe, or perhaps it was a collaborated collusion to discredit Martin and force a change in govt. We will never really know. But before you threw that stone and suggest that Conservatives are clean, I encourage you to dig deeper. You see Mulroney has resurfaced with the façade of support for his fellow conservative.
Examples of how NOT clean conservative are:
1) Father, Son and the CIA—illegal LSD experiments on 500 random Canadian Patients by the USA. Endorsed by Mulroney. Resulted in only 10 survivors. Dr. Cameron escaping jurisdiction, and CSIS (above RCMP) covering up for Mulroney.
2) Mulroney awarded $2mil of our taxpaying dollars when he sued the Federal Govt. (by those liberally appointed judges you say favour liberal’s) He placed a gag order, and a cease order on further investigations by the RCMP into the Airbus Scandal. The Scandal was stopped when it reached the swiss bank account.
3) Mulroney in the thick of Air Canada’s attempt to recover from Bankruptcy. Per the National Post, Cerberus Capital Mgmt of New York was in a bid for AC, Mulroney was helping them relaunch an improved bid and was lobbying AC’s directors to reconsider the new bid. All the while, knowing that he would become the chairman of the airline's board of directors, if AC accepted the bid. If you still don’t get it…Mulroney privatized AC in the mid-‘80s knowing, from a consultants report, of a bankruptcy loom.
If you think that there is no corruption, thievery or collusion in the conservative party, then I think perhaps you are naïve. Mulroney is still playing an active role with the conservative party in Canada (all the while living in the US) and had his close friends the Bush’s at his daughters wedding in 2000. No there is definitely no way that Conservatives have any interest in supporting a War, least of all if Mulroney counsels them. Please...
Don’t destroy what’s left of Canada by saying Conservatives are clean
My suggestion is to vote and ensure who the opposition will be. For me I will be leaning towards the NDP…as opposition. Any Party is better than the Conservatives. |
The PC Party of Mulroney is not the Conservative Party of Harper - it's been reformed. |
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| ShadoWolf |
| quote: | Originally posted by b4k-oz
For Jayx1, ShadoWolf, Chrome and djesso:
What the Liberal Party has done to Canada…
1) 1874, PM Alexander MacKenzie enacted your right to vote by secret ballot. Priorly-the conservative business owners enforced coercion, intimidation of job security and disqualification for not swearing to uphold the King against the Catholic. ALL none British descendants were disqualified
2) 1927, theOld Age Pensions Act was enacted by PM William Lyon Mackenzie King. They created your Pension Plan
3) 1963, PM Lester B. Pearson laid the foundation for medical care for all citizens (which went into effect in 1969 under Trudeau). They created your health care/OHIP
4) Trudeau served Apr/68-Jun/79 & (after Conserv. Joe Clark’s vote of non confidence) by the insistence of the people/parliament, served again from Mar/80-Jun/84. He strengthened cultural policies to promote the media and subsidized Canadian participation in international sports events to provide a new focus for national pride. To abolish Canada's historical racist immigration policy Trudeau liberalized immigration practices (he didn’t hold an open door) to show nations that Canada’s multi-culturalism encouraged distinct ethnic identities amongst it’s people. He also expanded payments to the underprivileged, the young, and the aged to realize a social democracy in the European style.
In 1982 Trudeau enacted our Charter of Rights and Freedom.
BTW you’re supporting that Charter right now at this forum.
If you believe your Canada has gone to the gutter because of Trudeau and multi-culturalism, then please read your history.
In a well planned effort to break down the ideals of multi-culturalism, Conserv. Brian Mulroney allowed mass immigration (he held the door open to all) while limiting the rights of new immigrants (Mulroney built the non-spoken agenda of governmental prejudice against newcomers)
When Trudeau was in power, immigration levels were moderate and fluctuated according to labour market conditions. The highest influx of immigrants to Canada was during the Mulroney years (1984-1993).
And if you feel immigrants take away your jobs; please read the link and answer the question...Is working in a dead end retail or restaurants job (for minimum wage) what you set out to do in your life?
Are you a proud British (descendant) Canadian?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/seri.../twentysix.html
I don’t think I’ve ever seen any non-immigrants standing in line for a job opportunity at your local gas station or janitorial/cleaner company. I’ve never heard any non-immigrant say they wanted to pump gas into a car during winter or clean up after people in hotels, health clubs and old age homes. |
The Charter of Rights is the biggest farce ever.
Was Canada a dictatorship before 1982??
Nonsense. |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf
The Charter of Rights is the biggest farce ever.
Was Canada a dictatorship before 1982??
Nonsense. |
no but don't you agree that we should have a set of written rules? |
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| Allegory |
I would suggest that we respect each others choices for government. I am a lefty for many reasons.
I just ask that maybe you should consider the party you choose; not just for their financial and/or economic claims, but how they reflect your values.
As a woman, and a leftist I can never vote PC, because they don't appreciate one's entitlement to voice or pursue their active lifestyle.
Harper's christian fundamentalist views go against my moral grain. After seeing wonderful advancements with same-sex marriage, being pro-choice, choosing not to get married, a chance for so many to immigrate to Canada and have a better life, possibly legalizing marijuana, and finally a country who stood up against war, I'd hate to see that being oppressed by anyone with the power to control a country.
Perhaps I'm just a bleeding heart, or I took too many sociology, poli-sci classes in university, but living a life full of these choices is a wonderful breathe of fresh air.
uh...or maybe I lived in Vermont for too long...Damn hippies! |
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| k0nk |
^
Well, I'm too far left to ever come back, but I totally agree with you! |
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| b4k-oz |
| quote: | Originally posted by baystreetboi
Stop festering on all the negatives? But just a few posts ago you brought up all the "negatives" about how the Conservative party's past wasn't "clean" by suggesting Mulroney still has his fingers in the pudding. How is that any different? By your own words, "what's done is done." |
Actually, I brought up Mulroney only bcuz he was the most recent Conservative in power and cuz everyone's post said the Conservatives were clean, when they are not. Truthfully, I could have pulled up our most noted drunk "Diefenbaker" as an example too but I decided to go with a name that some could relate.
| quote: | | Perhaps you and other's weren't happy with the changes made over the period 10-20 years ago (I for one support many of them)... and that's the reason the PC's were tossed. Now I say history has repeated itself over the past 10 years and it's time to turf these bums. |
I'm not happy with what the Conservatives did to my Country. How can you sit there and say you support how the Conservatives skyrocketed Canada's national debt from $170 billion CDN to a staggering $530 billion? or how they sold off our Canada? Or how they allowed privatization, as if the private company was going to care about keeping their workers happy and safe? I'm not happy with the way the Liberal's under Chretian handled themselves either...but I'm not going to vote for them either.
| quote: | | Harper for one does scare me to some degree, particularly as I'm more of a red Tory, but I think many of the policy releases over the recent days and in the days ahead from the Conservative party will demonstrate that the new party is much more moderate than the previous Reform / Alliance parties. That being said, I say give them a chance this time 'round! |
Look, both Conserv. and Liberal parties have made too many mistakes and don't deserve to be voted in again. Why would you vote them in. Don't you think it's time for a real change? I for one am not prepared to go through another recession. Historically, everytime the Conservatives have stepped in, it's been job losses and economic downfall. If regardless of what I'm saying, your still going to vote Conservative...then you'd better start searching for a new job...won't be long before the stock market crashes again and layoffs boom again. Whatever is left of Canada will be sold over to the U.S.A. and Canadians will be forced to go to war. A war which has nothing to do with us. Sounds like your a young 30ish lad that hasn't been around too much. Time to open your eyes and vote for neither so that you can save your country.
| quote: | Originally posted by ShadoWolf:
The Charter of Rights is the biggest farce ever.
Was Canada a dictatorship before 1982?? |
Well, yes it was...Though I was too young--I was around and saw the difference. Maybe you should ask your parents what the Unions were like in those years. Perhaps they were immigrants...why don't you ask them how easy it was for them--or if unemployed, how easy was it for them to get U.I. or benefits that other Canadians had? |
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