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Hot looking girls vs Girls who look Hot when they dance (pg. 11)
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| DJ El Kay Dee |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Can you explain the kickstep specifically? I'm sure I've seen it tons of times but it's never been fully elaborated to me.
P.S. Breaks and jungle are still a 4/4 beat, they're just far more intricate and further subdivided than the prog/trance beat. In fact, aside from some IDM and a few psytrance tracks, I don't think I can find anything in my electronic music collection that's not 4/4. |
k prolly shouldnt be changing subject here but....im sorry breakbeat is NOT 4/4
4/4 means 4 kicks per bar(simply speaking) and a bar has 4 counts(generally).
now i know u probably know all ur music theory and all that jazz but this is what i know of by being in bands with drummers whove actually studied music and ahve explained this in detail (eya ok i have no actual reference to show u...woopti do)
the reason why the term breakbeat was coined was cos of the irregular count. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee
k prolly shouldnt be changing subject here but....im sorry breakbeat is NOT 4/4
4/4 means 4 kicks per bar(simply speaking) and a bar has 4 counts(generally).
now i know u probably know all ur music theory and all that jazz but this is what i know of by being in bands with drummers whove actually studied music and ahve explained this in detail (eya ok i have no actual reference to show u...woopti do)
the reason why the term breakbeat was coined was cos of the irregular count. |
No Liam, you're incorrect. Sorry, but as you said, I do know my music theory as I went through all the formal training and aced all the exams. I don't really care what your acquaintances tell you because many of them are probably self-taught, or for some other reason didn't learn all the theory themselves. Drummers often don't learn much musical theory - that's common.
Breakbeats are just that - broken beats. It's still a 4/4 beat, just broken! 4/4 doesn't mean 4 "kicks" per bar, it means 4 BEATS per bar, whether those beats are sounded with a kick or not. If you want to get technical, it means that the time itself is divided into 4 intervals of quarter-note duration. What gets put INTO those intervals has no bearing whatsoever on the time signature. The actual kick could be right at the beginning of the interval, or right in the middle of it.
As a trivial example just look at the map below (with "x" being a kick and "o" being a snare or high hat or some other interval drum - they are often interchangeable in dance tracks):
BAR/BEAT:
[-----Bar 01-----][-----Bar 02-----]
[1---2---3---4---][1---2---3---4---]
PATTERN:
[x---o---x---o---][x---o---x---o---] (trance)
[x-o-o---x---o---][x-o-o---x---x---] (house)
[x---o-x-x---x---][x---o---x---o---] (tribal)
[x-------o---x---][----x---o---x---] (basic break)
[x-------o-------][----x---o-------] (jungle)
Note how those are all derivatives of the same basic 4/4 time. In 90% of tracks, you'll get those 2 bars repeated an even number of times, so that the total number of "patterns" is a multiple of 4. That makes them not only 4/4, but kind of a "4/4/4" - 4 bars of 4 quarters.
In fact, the break beat and jungle beat are actually quite similar. The only real difference is that jungle has a faster bpm and is more layered.
Care to argue this some more, oh wise one?
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| vickyvale |
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
WOW! :eek:
I always learn something when I read your posts, Aaron! Keep em comin'! :toothless |
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| DJ El Kay Dee |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Care to argue this some more, oh wise one?
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i wasnt arguing, just stating something that ive been taught. and i did say i have no reference to prove myself right (meaning i could be wrong)
but yes its fascinating tho.
PS. about he jungle/breakbeat similarity, yea its quite prevelant |
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| Endlesswave |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Can you explain the kickstep specifically? I'm sure I've seen it tons of times but it's never been fully elaborated to me.
P.S. Breaks and jungle are still a 4/4 beat, they're just far more intricate and further subdivided than the prog/trance beat. In fact, aside from some IDM and a few psytrance tracks, I don't think I can find anything in my electronic music collection that's not 4/4. |
What about anything by Aphex Twin or Autechre etc, is anything by them considered to be in 4/4 time? |
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| AwakenedAddict |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee
i wasnt arguing, just stating something that ive been taught. and i did say i have no reference to prove myself right (meaning i could be wrong)
but yes its fascinating tho.
PS. about he jungle/breakbeat similarity, yea its quite prevelant |
Aaron is right, breakbeats just incorporate more, smaller fractions of beats than house.. ie an 1/8 (or 1/16, etc.) note instead of a 1/4 beat.
My cousin is a big music freak and he always chides me that electronic music is only produced in a 4/4 beat. |
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| VERTiG0 |
| Awesome post diginut, very informative :cool: |
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
BAR/BEAT:
[-----Bar 01-----][-----Bar 02-----]
[1---2---3---4---][1---2---3---4---]
PATTERN:
[x---o---x---o---][x---o---x---o---] (trance)
[x-o-o---x---o---][x-o-o---x---x---] (house)
[x---o-x-x---x---][x---o---x---o---] (tribal)
[x-------o---x---][----x---o---x---] (basic break)
[x-------o-------][----x---o-------] (jungle)
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:eek: |
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| E2EK1EL |
Simple terms ...
Grabb a jungle track and slow it down and you got breaks. A lot of jungle headliners do that b4 a rewind , sounds really nice and refreshing. |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
BAR/BEAT:
[-----Bar 01-----][-----Bar 02-----]
[1---2---3---4---][1---2---3---4---]
PATTERN:
[x---o---x---o---][x---o---x---o---] (trance)
[x-o-o---x---o---][x-o-o---x---x---] (house)
[x---o-x-x---x---][x---o---x---o---] (tribal)
[x-------o---x---][----x---o---x---] (basic break)
[x-------o-------][----x---o-------] (jungle)
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cool, the way i sounded it out was for every x i said boom and for every o i said tsst. |
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| StereoPrincess |
hmm, but now i'm confused.
aaron, what does 5/4 count look like and what does 3/4 count look like? |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Endlesswave
What about anything by Aphex Twin or Autechre etc, is anything by them considered to be in 4/4 time? |
Noooo... IDM is not only not 4/4, but some of it is impossible to place into any consistent time. Look to Squarepusher's "hard normal daddy" album as an example of an entire collection of tracks that don't make any temporal sense. Which isn't to say that it's bad music, I still listen to it from time to time, I just don't think I could ever figure out a way to dance to it. In order for something to be "danceable", it has to be relatively predictable, hence the 4/4.
IDM, like Autechre, is usually either atemporal or switches rapidly between several obscure time signatures. I've actually tried to make this kind of music twice, and what usually happens is that you start out with a vision, manage to pump out a minute or so of tunage, and then get completely and utterly lost. It's nearly impossible to recover from mental block, because there aren't any rules or guidelines you can turn to. It's VERY difficult to do, and I commend those artists for doing such an amazing job of it, so don't by any means interpret my comments as a jab against them.
Anyway, that was fairly off topic but I thought it could use some elaboration... there is also a particular subgenre of IDM called "drill 'n' bass" or "broken beats" (not the same as breakbeats) that actually does have time in some cases, but in those cases it's usually a 4/4 time. :p
| quote: | Originally posted by E2EK1EL
Simple terms ...
Grabb a jungle track and slow it down and you got breaks. A lot of jungle headliners do that b4 a rewind , sounds really nice and refreshing. |
Exactly. :D
And you can take that even further - take a breaks track and slow it down and you've got hip hop! Seen that done a few times too. |
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