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Hot looking girls vs Girls who look Hot when they dance (pg. 12)
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| dEsidEL |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
Noooo... IDM is not only not 4/4, but some of it is impossible to place into any consistent time. Look to Squarepusher's "hard normal daddy" album as an example of an entire collection of tracks that don't make any temporal sense. Which isn't to say that it's bad music, I still listen to it from time to time, I just don't think I could ever figure out a way to dance to it. In order for something to be "danceable", it has to be relatively predictable, hence the 4/4.
IDM, like Autechre, is usually either atemporal or switches rapidly between several obscure time signatures. I've actually tried to make this kind of music twice, and what usually happens is that you start out with a vision, manage to pump out a minute or so of tunage, and then get completely and utterly lost. It's nearly impossible to recover from mental block, because there aren't any rules or guidelines you can turn to. It's VERY difficult to do, and I commend those artists for doing such an amazing job of it, so don't by any means interpret my comments as a jab against them.
Anyway, that was fairly off topic but I thought it could use some elaboration... there is also a particular subgenre of IDM called "drill 'n' bass" or "broken beats" (not the same as breakbeats) that actually does have time in some cases, but in those cases it's usually a 4/4 time. :p
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oks.. now let's put all that theory into practice .. :thepirate :crazy:
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| Chinaman |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ El Kay Dee
k prolly shouldnt be changing subject here but....im sorry breakbeat is NOT 4/4
4/4 means 4 kicks per bar(simply speaking) and a bar has 4 counts(generally).
now i know u probably know all ur music theory and all that jazz but this is what i know of by being in bands with drummers whove actually studied music and ahve explained this in detail (eya ok i have no actual reference to show u...woopti do)
the reason why the term breakbeat was coined was cos of the irregular count. |
LKD,
I think Aaron is right on this one. Though I did only study vocal music in high school (and we all know how notoriously BAD vocal music people are at reading music and rhythm when it compared to instrumental people), pretty much everything written nowadays is a 4/4 time.
Yes, usually the off-beats in the bar, beats 2 and 4, have the snare drum while beats 1 and 3 are usually the bass drum in simple terms. As for breakbeats, if you tap your foot or count with your hands, you'll notice it's still a 4/4 timing. The MAIN difference being that the snare drum is not ONLY on beats 2 and 4 but if divided up into eigth notes, it may appear on the 3rd or 6th notes for instance.
On a completely different topic from beat structures, for all you budding producers, you'll know that ALL music written past the 1950's follows the same general progession or perhaps has varations upon:
|: I - IV - (VI) - V :|
Tonic - Subdominant - (Relative Minor) - Dominant
Whether we're talking 12-bar blues I-IV-I-V or "Endless Wave" - Kamaya Painters, which in fact follows the I-IV-VI-V pattern (listen to the bassline carefully, although I don't know what key it's in) you'll notice EVERYTHING in music follows this...
For all you budding guitarists too, you now know the fundamentals of Rock 'n' Roll :D |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
hmm, but now i'm confused.
aaron, what does 5/4 count look like and what does 3/4 count look like? |
Well the diagram I posted was to show how all of those major EDM genres fit into a 4/4 time.
If you changed the time to 5/4 or 3/4, you'd be adding (or taking away) an extra beat in the "header" row. If we took 5/4, for example, we'd have:
BAR/BEAT:
[-------Bar 01-------][-------Bar 02-------]
[1---2---3---4---5---][1---2---3---4---5---]
PATTERN:
[x---o---x---o---x---][o---x---o---????????] (trance)
[x-o-o---x---o---x-o-][o---x---x---????????] (house)
[x---o-x-x---x---x---][o---x---o---????????] (tribal)
[x-------o---x-------][x---o---x---????????] (basic break)
[x-------o-----------][x---o-------????????] (jungle)
Clearly these things don't fit very well into a 5/4. If you repeated the patterns enough times (precisely 5 times in this case), the patterns would eventually match up with the bar lines. That's just mathematical law; but it makes no sense in dance music to have a pattern repeated 5 times, it's always some multiple of 4. Don't ask me why, but that's the way it is - even when you're working with a time signature of 3/4 or 5/8 or 7/16, you still virtually always use a multiple of 4 bars for a musical line. |
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| DJ El Kay Dee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chinaman
LKD,
..... |
well im not saying hes wrong...adn im not starting an arguement cos of course i havent done theory in music
its good for me to get this straightened out being a guitarist/EDM producer |
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| StereoPrincess |
i found this on keeping time:
How to Count In Various Time Signatures
To count in 3/4 time, you would say the following:
1-2-3-2-2-3-3-2-3-4-2-3 and repeat.
To count in 4/4 time you would say the following:
1-2-3-4-2-2-3-4-3-2-3-4-4-2-3-4 and repeat.
To count in 5/4 time you would say the following:
1-2-3-4-5-2-2-3-4-5-3-2-3-4-5-4-2-3-4-5 and repeat.
To count eighth notes, you count as follows:
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-2-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-3-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-4-and-2-and-3-and-4-and -- Repeat
To count sixteenth notes, you count as follows:
1-e-and-e-2-e-and-e-3-e-and-e-4-e-and-e -- and repeat |
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| Chinaman |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
i found this on keeping time:
How to Count In Various Time Signatures
To count in 3/4 time, you would say the following:
1-2-3-2-2-3-3-2-3-4-2-3 and repeat.
To count in 4/4 time you would say the following:
1-2-3-4-2-2-3-4-3-2-3-4-4-2-3-4 and repeat.
To count in 5/4 time you would say the following:
1-2-3-4-5-2-2-3-4-5-3-2-3-4-5-4-2-3-4-5 and repeat.
To count eighth notes, you count as follows:
1-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-2-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-3-and-2-and-3-and-4-and-4-and-2-and-3-and-4-and -- Repeat
To count sixteenth notes, you count as follows:
1-e-and-e-2-e-and-e-3-e-and-e-4-e-and-e -- and repeat |
That's how my music teacher in high school did it... Oh, Nostalgia... Behzad & Ryan, don't you miss Mens' Choir? |
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| LittlePoonzgirl |
Errr, did I have different breed of music teachers? Why don't I remember all this counting, bah.
In any case, 3/4 is a waltz and 4/4 is traditionally a march-type beat. I've been noticing a lot more 2/4 and 2/2 (cut time) songs though lately but those both sound similar to 4/4.
The first number tells you how many beats there are in the bar, and the second number tells you what type of note equals one beat. (4=quarter note, 2=half note, etc.)
I miss my piano
:( |
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| DJ El Kay Dee |
| quote: | Originally posted by LittlePoonzgirl
I miss my piano
:( |
i miss my guitar |
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| Chinaman |
| quote: | Originally posted by LittlePoonzgirl
Errr, did I have different breed of music teachers? Why don't I remember all this counting, bah.
In any case, 3/4 is a waltz and 4/4 is traditionally a march-type beat. I've been noticing a lot more 2/4 and 2/2 (cut time) songs though lately but those both sound similar to 4/4.
The first number tells you how many beats there are in the bar, and the second number tells you what type of note equals one beat. (4=quarter note, 2=half note, etc.)
I miss my piano
:( |
Michelle,
You are absolutely correct. 3/4 is mainly for waltzs and 4/4 is the traditional march beat. As for 2/4 and cut-time, the latter is for like polka-type music where the basslines are usually moving from tonic to domininant or some combination similar to that and cut-time is for very fast songs like "Supercalifragalisticexpialidcious" :D
Again, a tidbit for those musicans on these forums, 12/8 and 6/8 times are sometimes used in music but that's because although the composition can be written in 4/4 as triplets, it is just easier to do it in a 12/8 and 6/8. 12/8 is usually seen with 50's rock, think "Earth Angel" from Back to the Future while Weezer's - "My Name is Jonas" is a 6/8 but again, it's basically just triplets! :crazy:
And LKD, if you're a guitarist, why do you miss your guitar? I can understand not having a piano... |
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| drgoodvibe |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chinaman
That's how my music teacher in high school did it... Oh, Nostalgia... Behzad & Ryan, don't you miss Mens' Choir? |
back in the day!! How long ago was that! Jeebus! :thepirate Good times though, how about Guy's and Dolls!! heh.
after reading what I just wrote, I realize i've really got to lay off the coffee for the rest of the day. |
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| ShadoWolf |
3/4 is the most underrated timing in music, for all genres.
I love the waltz as well. It's the world's most graceful dance. I'm listening to some Strauss at the moment. Old Skool Dance Music.
Strauss was the Tiesto of his time. :clown: :clown: Except Strauss was brilliant.
Western civlization reached it's peak in the 19th century. Other than technology, it's been all downhill since. |
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| DJ El Kay Dee |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chinaman
And LKD, if you're a guitarist, why do you miss your guitar? I can understand not having a piano... |
cos i havent had the desire to touch my baby for over 2 years now ever since i got more serious in producing edm :( |
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