|
R.I.P Aqsa Parvez (pg. 14)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by spolitta
lol that video really made you feel good didn't'? There are lots of clips on youtube that make fun of religion in a much more entertaining way, but why should I bother to post? I mean the idea behind faith and the uncreated creator is funny enough you don't need a comedian to make fun of it. |
ha ha :rolleyes: |
|
|
| Cosmic Fur |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Islam does not say kill your daughters because she didn't wear a headdress. I challenge you atheist types to find where in Quran says to kill your daughter for not wearing a headdress. |
No, but I bet it says somewhere in it that women are not allowed to go outside without it. Also, I bet somewhere else it says that a man has ownership or control over the women in his household. How do I know these things? Cause if something similar to that effect was not in the holy book, the women of Saudi Arabia would have stopped wearing them. I'm sure at least a few considered the idea of how it would be like to not have to put it on whenever they go outside. So I'll throw a challenge out to Fahad: In a muslin state, what would happen to a woman who said " that" to the head-dress, and decided to go outside in pants and a tshirt? Realistically speaking, would she even get to court, or will the men beat her to death before she even gets arrested? Don't tell me that every single woman in Saudi Arabia has the choice not to wear the headdress, but they all do anyway.
The problem with the holy books, all of them, is that they're chock full of contradictions. However crazy your interpretation of it is, you can find supporting passages of them in the holy book. Which brings me my next point:
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
edit: I may be making this way too simplified, but the way I see it, people follow one philosophy, say, Stoicism and live the way that philosophy tells them to do. same with a religion.
|
The difference with religion is that all religions teach that it is a virtue to be obedient and never think for yourself - the holy book does the thinking for you.
Taken with the fact that the holy book itself is full of contradictions, and you've got yourself some fertile ground for people acting in ed up ways. In this way, religion DOES BREED EXTREMISM, because religion teaches TO NEVER DOUBT it.
The difference with philosophy is that whichever philosophy you choose, you may renounce at any time, change it to your own liking, etc etc. Religion takes the exact opposite approach. Philosophy teaches you to expand your mind. Religion teaches you to close it and become a sheep.
As for the loudmouthed atheists in this thread, who are so sure of their belief that God doesn't exist, prove to me that God can't exist. Show me any evidence that God is not a possibility. Aaannd GO! |
|
|
| evil_cookie |
What is different from philosophy and religion, Yohan?
Philosophy is questions that may never be answered. Religion is answers that may never be questioned. ^_^
But seriously guys, stop this - it's really getting annoying. Why discuss a topic that:
a) cannot be proven either way. (get this through your ing heads)
b) always comes down to idiosyncratic views - my god is better than yours, your god advocates evil things, or you're all nuts there is no god, or...NO shut up, that's just how it is, because god said so.
c) a topic which leads you back to exactly where you started - in your only ing corner, except maybe a little more frustrated.
and finally, please do not bring philosophy into this discussion. That is to say, objectivity it would be a waste of time. (refer to a...)
my advice for you religious folks out there in this thread, is to start being a little more indifferent. If these are truly values you hold dear, do you FEEL THE NEED to force them upon others? In other words, do you feel you need to prove something about your own, inner faith? that right there is your first mistake, it welcomes people to easily prove you wrong (and like i said justly so, cause it can be proven/disproven for either case)
you can either waste your time going around in circles, or you can stfu and live your lives according to your own constitution.
Take your joy in simplicity, in integrity, in indifference to all that lies between virtue and vice. Marcus Aurelius
some of you should really look into Stoicism - but be wary whose views you're reading. |
|
|
| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by Cosmic Fur
No, but I bet it says somewhere in it that women are not allowed to go outside without it. Also, I bet somewhere else it says that a man has ownership or control over the women in his household. How do I know these things? Cause if something similar to that effect was not in the holy book, the women of Saudi Arabia would have stopped wearing them. I'm sure at least a few considered the idea of how it would be like to not have to put it on whenever they go outside. So I'll throw a challenge out to Fahad: In a muslin state, what would happen to a woman who said " that" to the head-dress, and decided to go outside in pants and a tshirt? Realistically speaking, would she even get to court, or will the men beat her to death before she even gets arrested? Don't tell me that every single woman in Saudi Arabia has the choice not to wear the headdress, but they all do anyway.
The problem with the holy books, all of them, is that they're chock full of contradictions. However crazy your interpretation of it is, you can find supporting passages of them in the holy book. Which brings me my next point: |
Why don't you go find in Quran the relevant passages?
Have you considered that hijab laws may be a cultural, not a religious thing?
| quote: |
The difference with religion is that all religions teach that it is a virtue to be obedient and never think for yourself - the holy book does the thinking for you.
Taken with the fact that the holy book itself is full of contradictions, and you've got yourself some fertile ground for people acting in ed up ways. In this way, religion DOES BREED EXTREMISM, because religion teaches TO NEVER DOUBT it.
The difference with philosophy is that whichever philosophy you choose, you may renounce at any time, change it to your own liking, etc etc. Religion takes the exact opposite approach. Philosophy teaches you to expand your mind. Religion teaches you to close it and become a sheep.
|
Religion does not teach blind obedience. Religious institutions do.
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_cookie
my advice for you religious folks out there in this thread, is to start being a little more indifferent. If these are truly values you hold dear, do you FEEL THE NEED to force them upon others? In other words, do you feel you need to prove something about your own, inner faith? that right there is your first mistake, it welcomes people to easily prove you wrong (and like i said justly so, cause it can be proven/disproven for either case) |
Idiotic comments should be refuted, eh? :p
I don't think the religious folks are forcing their religion on anyone, but rather explaining their points of view, that is all. (And likewise atheists are doing the same thing)
| quote: |
Take your joy in simplicity, in integrity, in indifference to all that lies between virtue and vice. Marcus Aurelius
some of you should really look into Stoicism - but be wary whose views you're reading. |
Marcus Aurelius ftw |
|
|
| Cosmic Fur |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Why don't you go find in Quran the relevant passages?
Have you considered that hijab laws may be a cultural, not a religious thing?
|
Yes, and then I wikipediaed it:
| quote: |
The term hijab or veil is not used in the Qur'an to refer to an article of clothing for women or men, rather it refers to a spatial curtain that divides or provides privacy. The Qur'an instructs the male believers (Muslims) to talk to wives of Muhammad behind a hijab. This hijab was the responsibility of the men and not the wives of Muhammad. However, in later Muslim societies this instruction specific to the wives of Muhammad was generalized, leading to the segregation of the Muslim men and women. The modesty in Qur'an concerns both men's and women's gaze, gait, garments, and genitalia. The clothing for women involves khumūr over the necklines and jilbab (cloaks) in public so that they may be identified and not harmed. Guidelines for covering of the entire body except for the hands, the feet, and the face, are found in texts of fiqh and hadith that are developed later.
|
So yeah, the holy book says it, and the religious zealots misinterpreted it (or maybe not, I'm really not going to bother reading through the Quaran to find them because of the aforementioned "it has enough contradictions to make your head spin"). And here we are - some version of it is in the Quaran, and if you're going to try and imply that Muslim cultural traditions are not lifted directly from the Muslim religion (and thus directly from the holy Quaran), I'm just going to laugh.
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Religion does not teach blind obedience. Religious institutions do.
|
Religion is based off of the holy book of that religion. Religious institutions simply make up interpretations of what is written in their holy book. They've got a passage to prove everything they say. The Bible has passages depicting how fags would burn in hell after they die, so finding a passage about being obedient isn't much of a stretch. And not doubting anything in the holy book is pretty much the foundation of every religion, and how every holy book begins. You can backpedal as far as you want with your definition of religion, up to the point where I'll agree with you, but the kind I meant was the religion that was based off of a holy book. If we throw away our bibles and think for ourselves, then yeah, a lot of the problems with religion will suddenly go away.
Edit: just off the top of my head, the story of Abraham in the bible depicts the proper believer being ready to slit his son's throat before doubting the word of God. Nowhere in that wonderful tale does it say, "Abraham thought about God's request to kill his son, and figured he could still do God's work without killing his only son, so he decided against the whole deal." |
|
|
| TheVrk |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
THAT AIN'T FUNNY.
I thought you would have come up with something more refined, like the Islamic calendar is based on the lunar cycle so there is some divine relationship with the moon in Islam, but instead you post that with Allah married to the sun and the stars are CHILDREN!?!?!?!
srsly, WHAT.THE.!?!?!?! |
Bro, honestly, don't let it get to you like that.
That's EXACTLY why the bashers are bashing:rolleyes: ...they WANT you to react like that and LOVE it. (which is pathetic in itself):rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
This is the difference between us and them.
We don't need to bash them. They somehow feel the NEED to bash to somehow justify their position and feel better about themselves...
Do you need to bash non-believers to feel justified? Of course not...neither do i. Again, that's the difference between us and them.
As long as we're at peace with Allah/God, thats all we can ask for.
That's all HE asks for...he doesn't want us to get all riled up and upset about threads like these;)
Let 'em say/post whatever they want, its just a in forum anyway.
If they wanna offend you, me, or any other believer, and Allah/God then so be it.
That's THEIR problem, not ours:D |
|
|
| TheVrk |
This thread should MORE be about this poor girl.
Thought it might be intersting for everyone back in Canada to know:
This story is now worldwide news:
This morning, when i got up for work here in Zagreb, Croatia, i turned on CNN International (which is broadcast all around the world)
and they had a full 5 min report on this story... |
|
|
| TheVrk |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_cookie
you can either waste your time going around in circles, or you can stfu and live your lives according to your own constitution.
Take your joy in simplicity, in integrity, in indifference to all that lies between virtue and vice. Marcus Aurelius
|
Well said;)
i always say, ""i'm not gonna be the dog who's endlessly chasing his tail.":happy2: |
|
|
| Dr. DAS |
Alrighty...
My religious beliefs are that all religions are wrong and there is no way we as a species have any comprehension as to a supreme being.
That said, I have nothing but respect and tolerence for people who do subscribe to a certain belief, even if I think it's preposterous, and if you knew me you would know that to be true. I'm just making conversation, I really don't care either way. In my opinion, religion is like unions - there was a time when it was necessary, but now it just causes problems.
If you're upset by the references I cited, well that sucks but I grew up in a Christian home and have a very limited understanding of Islam, save for a few core ideals and the fact that it gets taken very seriously, so when I see multiple articles referring to Allah as the moon (I'm not saying Allah is a large chunk of rock orbiting the Earth, but many cultures have applied this 'celestial personification' before and after Islam started)it starts to seem somewhat credible as a primitive belief and religious basis, clearly you would know better than I.
Everyone needs to lighten up a little here.
I'm done with this thread. |
|
|
| Orko |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Why don't you go find in Quran the relevant passages?
|
This is an English translated Quran that was given to me about a year ago outside of Eaton Center downtown. There was group of Muslim men, handing them out, talking with people, and trying educate the masses so that we would not fear them, but accept them. I thought it was nobel cause and took time to listen since I myself do not believe in religion. After listening to what the calm and intelligent man had to say, my opinion of Muslims had not changed. Most are good, and a few are bad, just like all religious believers, or people in general.
I got home, and just started browsing, and the section titled "The Women" sounded interesting. Remember, this is a Quran, given out by Muslims, to try and educate non believers. The passage speaks for itself. This is what I came across:
EDIT: Not exactly a passage referring to the hijab, but it is pretty related for this case (violence against women).
I will still argue the father was wrong, and should have had self control. But, by reading that passage, it seems he followed the steps. First admonish, then don't share a bed (kick her out?), then coerce with force. This passage was specifically written for wifes, but it seems as if it could be applied to women in general. See how tough this is? |
|
|
| Dr. DAS |
I know I said I was done, but here's an update:
| quote: |
Cause Of Death In 16-Yr.-Old's Murder Revealed, As Brother Denies Hijab Was Source Of Family Controversy
Wednesday December 12, 2007
CityNews.ca Staff
It is a family torn apart by grief and rage - a daughter dead, a father accused and a brother charged. The circumstances of what authorities think led to the death of Aqsa Parvez on Monday will become clearer as the journey to justice continues for the man charged with killing her - her own father.
But on Wednesday, one mystery was finally resolved - the official cause of the 16-year-old's death. An autopsy shows the Mississauga teen died from 'neck compressions,' lending credence to reports she was strangled in her Longhorn Trail home in the Eglinton and Hurontaro area.
The crime, which has made headlines around the world after being picked up by international wire services, allegedly followed an argument over the wearing of a hijab, a traditional Muslim head scarf. Fifty-seven-year-old Muhammad Parvez kept his head lowered as he appeared in a Brampton courtroom on Wednesday. He's facing murder charges, while his 26-year-old son, Aqsa's brother, is accused of obstructing justice in the case.
But another sibling - who was in the home at the time of the crime - insists the hijab wasn't behind what happened. "It was not culture," Mohammed Shan insists. But he refused to elaborate. "We don't know, we don't know nothing what happened." (sic)
Observers admit there may be too much emphasis on the head scarf and not enough on the dynamics of an apparently dysfunctional family. "People are focusing on the hijab issue," argues Sumayyah Poonah of Young Muslims of Canada. "And the emphasis really should be placed on the domestic violence issue."
A publication ban has been placed on Parvez's court appearance, but CityNews has learned he's been a licensed taxi driver in Mississauga since 2003. He has a clean record, and there were never any complaints filed against him.
The family has been devastated by what took place and all the relatives are still reeling from the shocking tragedy. "My dad is alive but my sister passed away so I feel bad for my sister," Shan relates. He admits he hasn't been able to talk to his father since police led him away to jail. But his mother is a mess. "She's bad, she's feeling bad. Her daughter died, so she feels bad," Shan states tersely.
His father will be back in court for a bail hearing January 29th. In the meantime, his lawyer has asked the court to look out for his client while he's in custody, because he has a heart condition.
|
SOURCE |
|
|
| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | | his lawyer has asked the court to look out for his client while he's in custody, because he has a heart condition. |
the f*cker should have died of heart attack while strangling his daughter :mad: |
|
|
|
|
