Nrg2Nfinit, can you please show me a picture of this "Free Market"? Terrible name for a person if you ask me, but if this individual is indeed the saviour of the world as you profess, then I'd like to look upon their visage, even just for a moment.
edit: Nevermind, found one:
Oh look, here's another one!
Here's another:
Wow, this "Free Market" person seems to have endless faces. Which one are you looking at, aside from your own profit-at-any-cost based one?
Sunsnail
lol really. get real
Nrg2Nfinit
quote:
Originally posted by EddieZilker
Do you really need to win this argument? I mean, really - that's what it's come down to? I've seen all these arguments but they never contend with the bottom line. The bottom line is that even though a small percentage of people did knowingly get in over their heads in the mortgage crisis, the net result was an epic failure of monumental consequences and millions of people, including my family, are paying the price.
So am I. but im not going to just sit here and blame the big boys who drive our economy and create liquidity in our markets when the cosumers are equally responsible for its downfall.
quote:
The ethics you're applying are that of the psychopathic con-man. They justify themselves by projecting their own greed onto their victims. Like Timothy McVeigh, they callously disregard the impact they've had with three simple words, "Get over it."
Forgive me, The baby boomers didn't build our society on credit, they did it with hard work. There is no such thing as a free lunch, this should be a good lesson to those who defaulted on their loans.
Its money. You work hard, you earn it. You save you spend you invest wisely, learn from your mistakes.
EddieZilker
quote:
Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
So am I. but im not going to just sit here and blame the big boys who drive our economy and create liquidity in our markets when the cosumers are equally responsible for its downfall.
Most consumers aren't responsible for the downfall. A few, knowingly got in over their heads. And the big boys are accountable. They created complex equations which showed long-term profits without ever considering that they were simply building a distended pyramid scheme. They would not have been able to do so without deregulation.
quote:
Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit Forgive me, The baby boomers didn't build our society on credit, they did it with hard work. There is no such thing as a free lunch, this should be a good lesson to those who defaulted on their loans.
Its money. You work hard, you earn it. You save you spend you invest wisely, learn from your mistakes.
So, you justify everything with a hard morality lesson and a convenient 'teachable moment'. That's precious.
Nrg2Nfinit
quote:
Originally posted by EddieZilker
Most consumers aren't responsible for the downfall. A few, knowingly got in over their heads. And the big boys are accountable. They created complex equations which showed long-term profits without ever considering that they were simply building a distended pyramid scheme. They would not have been able to do so without deregulation.
You just pulled that statistic out of your ass. The fact is that most consumers ARE responsible, otherwise they would have not gone in with the subprime mortgages, they would have went with regular ones.
quote:
Subprime borrowers typically have weakened credit histories and reduced repayment capacity. Subprime loans have a higher risk of default than loans to prime borrowers.[16] If a borrower is delinquent in making timely mortgage payments to the loan servicer (a bank or other financial firm), the lender may take possession of the property, in a process called foreclosure.
The value of USA subprime mortgages was estimated at $1.3 trillion as of March 2007, [17] with over 7.5 million first-lien subprime mortgages outstanding.[18] Between 2004-2006 the share of subprime mortgages relative to total originations ranged from 18%-21%, versus less than 10% in 2001-2003 and during 2007.[19][20] In the third quarter of 2007, subprime ARMs making up only 6.8% of USA mortgages outstanding also accounted for 43% of the foreclosures which began during that quarter.[21] By October 2007, approximately 16% of subprime adjustable rate mortgages (ARM) were either 90-days delinquent or the lender had begun foreclosure proceedings, roughly triple the rate of 2005.[22] By January 2008, the delinquency rate had risen to 21%[23] and by May 2008 it was 25%.[24]
there you go some statistics you can look up the references to verify with wikipedia.
again ill repeat. The consumer is responsible as they are the ones who defaulted. THE BANKS are responsible for giving the consumers the option. 2 parties equally responsible to be fair. Its a case of stupidity vs greed.
quote:
So, you justify everything with a hard morality lesson and a convenient 'teachable moment'. That's precious.
no, im just saying that you have to also hold the consumer accountable for their decisions. This has been my premise the whole time. I just hate to hear idiots galavant on how evil goldman sachs are when they don't even understand their business model or what they are at fault for.
PivotTechno
quote:
Originally posted by Sunsnail
lol really. get real
You seem to enjoy using the word real a lot. What, is there something not real about those photos?
What's real? Your Nintendo DS? Your Nikes?
enydo
quote:
Originally posted by PivotTechno
You seem to enjoy using the word real a lot. What, is there something not real about those photos?
What's real? Your Nintendo DS? Your Nikes?
He was probably not even talking to you. Calm down.
Halcyon+On+On
The computer neatly tucked away in your safe home in Toronto that you use to preach to others that they don't do enough to solve the world's problems?
EddieZilker
quote:
Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
Wikipedia
$125 billion of $859 billion total mortgage dollars were subprime.
Do you understand, also, that I am arguing against deregulation and have read more Ayn Rand - an author who Alan Greenspan was a disciple of - than you?
Do you even know who Alan Greenspan is, let alone what it was that he supported?
PivotTechno
quote:
Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
The computer neatly tucked away in your safe home in Toronto that you use to preach to others that they don't do enough to solve the world's problems?
Comes in handy, it does .
(and the computer has some wonderful word processing and image editing capabilities that help to balance out the seemingly relentless preachy stuff)
PivotTechno
quote:
Originally posted by enydo
He was probably not even talking to you. Calm down.
Fair enough.
D-res
quote:
Originally posted by Sunsnail
lol really. get real
That is real. Who is to blame when a multinational steps into a poor country, covets their resources and cheap labor, destroys their environment, and lobbies against regulations that would change all those things? Indonesia or the Philippines aren't invested in by huge companies because they have pretty beaches. Companies have been doing this for decades, and continue to do it, even as it's blatantly obvious that their investment does little to nothing to actually help the country they're in. Export-oriented development has failed in pretty much every case. It's clear that the wealth gap has only increased, the rich only get richer and the poor and benighted only get more thrown at them, for $6.50 a week mind you ;)
But it's a mentality of taking care of your own HERE before considering those that are out of sight and mind. I think it's barbaric, even if curbing it is an extremely lofty goal.
