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Ecological Disaster Gulf of Mexico (pg. 6)
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
do you use plastic? drive a car? smoke cigarettes? wear shoes? If so you are just as much of a contributor to the problem as me. I'm just a speculator here assuming that the price of oil will climb and thus take a profit with me.
I'm also just making a speculative bet to hedge the already increasing prices i pay for my gasoline. |
You will pay for exposing my unrepentant hypocrisy. Of course. I do all of these things. Fact of the matter is that a single barrel of oil changes possession so many times with the price increasing every time, not entirely because of demand, on my part, but because the futures markets are largely unregulated. So while your assertion is true, that you are just a speculator, you're among many speculators driving the price of a single barrel of oil 300% (+/- 150%) over its actual market value. It would therefore be a lot cheaper for me to do them without your interference, in the pricing.
Of course, to recriminate you, alone, in this is irrelevant and my argument only stands directed towards the principle of the matter. Although I am being tongue in cheek with my dialogue with you, on this matter, you should know that the ultra-high prices for gasoline, a while back - the ones where I was spending over $4.25 per gallon - those had a rather severe effect on my household, severely limiting already meager financial resources and causing an enormous toll, emotionally.
So, am I culpable for wanting and/or needing the things you mention in your argument. Of course. That's what makes it so irksome. In Michigan, the power companies are also unregulated. What that means is that the power companies, alone, get to determine the prices they charge the consumer. With speculation in the futures markets driving the prices up of things like Oil and Coal, there are a million ways from Sunday in which my family gets held over the barrel.
And, of course, it's not just my family but almost every family in Michigan. The exorbitant prices being charged to the consumer, be it through oil futures or consumer banking, dry up an already dwindled supply of money that would otherwise be circulating in the economy. If there is no money to pay my wages, I don't really stand a chance of getting hired.
Meanwhile, you're claiming that you stand to make a profit. What you are profiting off of, however, is so unethical and creates so much harm that I honestly have to wonder, what kind of person it makes you to post, in this thread, that you want the price of oil to increase? Okay. Granted, you're removed from my side of the equation. You needn't concern yourself with my welfare anymore than I ought to concern myself with yours.
But, really, what you're hoping for results in less money I have to spend on some kind of important stuff. |
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| leph555 |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
technically the fund i am in is an etf which simply mirrors the movement of the futures. I do not have the capital, nor the power to manipulate the futures markets. Natural gas is one thing, but you are talking about 300,000 contracts a day valued at 85 dollars each.
I just watch the futures, pick a direction and put money into a leveraged etf which reciprocates double the daily gains or losses of the current future contracts preformance.
The oil cartel is controlled and manipulated by opec at large, while i may be a sand ******, i do not have those connections or insight.
Like i said before, im just a small fish riding the wave. I pay for gas just like everyone here, and i take my investment as a hedge to reduce my overall expenses on gas (and make a little bit of money on the side).
Don't blame capitalism. Its what brought you the bread to your table every morning, your Birkenstock that you wear with socks and the everyday freedoms you enjoy and usurp. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
Don't blame capitalism. Its what brought you the bread to your table every morning, your Birkenstock that you wear with socks and the everyday freedoms you enjoy and usurp. |
Practically speaking, I don't blame capitalism (and to be perfectly clear, I really don't blame you). I love capitalism. I really do. I see it as a dynamic construct which allows for as much power as it does diversity. But, rightly or wrongly, I think there is a gargantuan difference between true Capitalism, in which its idealized goals are met, and a Free Market Economy, where anything goes.
The prices which rose to over $4.25 per gallon, back in 2008, weren't even entirely OPEC's fault. A very large portion of that price increase, by my understanding, was driven by speculators in so-called "dark market" which are shielded from over-sight and whose participants have no accountability for transparency.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008...in4188620.shtml
Does OPEC benefit by a relationship implied in the chain of transaction? Probably, but not to the degree that is convenient to assign the mountain of blame.
But let me be clear. Essentially, the word, Capitalism assumes a level playing field - at least in the common American psyche. There is a long history in the United States of capitalism having to be reigned in because its excesses led to a severe level of unfairness into the market. Alan Greenspan, a long time devotee of Ayn Rand, championed her anarchic vision for capitalism and has brought about, not simply the current economic crisis, but being in the position he was in for some time, helped to facilitate the usurping of other people's freedoms with the help of Henry Kissinger.
http://fray.slate.com/discuss/forums/post/3431219.aspx
Now, it would appear, that it is the American public's turn to feel a little oppression garnered by nothing less than the ideals they were taught to cherish of the Free Market. But even Alan Greenspan, a champion of Rand, has now had to bow under the unequivocal truth that Rand's philosophy was, at best, delusional. |
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| jonSun |
| quote: | Originally posted by Nrg2Nfinit
technically the fund i am in is an etf which simply mirrors the movement of the futures. |
USO? |
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| infinity HiGH |
| I wish this wouldn't have happened but all it does is make more of a case for alternative energy sources, like the ones I'm invested in. So ummmm...hopefully I get rich from all this :( |
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| stren |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
I wish this wouldn't have happened but all it does is make more of a case for alternative energy sources, like the ones I'm invested in. So ummmm...hopefully I get rich from all this :( |
alternative energy = ygrene ? |
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| Ted Promo |
| I always wanted to shut that Ariel bitch up. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by jonSun
USO? |
lol nope
HOU.TO.. this one is leveraged so i get double the daily preformance isntead of just the daily preformance. The disadvantage is i lose way more when the contracts rollover and the deterioration of the fund is about .1% per week.
Its a day trading vehicle. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Practically speaking, I don't blame capitalism (and to be perfectly clear, I really don't blame you). I love capitalism. I really do. I see it as a dynamic construct which allows for as much power as it does diversity. But, rightly or wrongly, I think there is a gargantuan difference between true Capitalism, in which its idealized goals are met, and a Free Market Economy, where anything goes.
The prices which rose to over $4.25 per gallon, back in 2008, weren't even entirely OPEC's fault. A very large portion of that price increase, by my understanding, was driven by speculators in so-called "dark market" which are shielded from over-sight and whose participants have no accountability for transparency.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008...in4188620.shtml
Does OPEC benefit by a relationship implied in the chain of transaction? Probably, but not to the degree that is convenient to assign the mountain of blame.
But let me be clear. Essentially, the word, Capitalism assumes a level playing field - at least in the common American psyche. There is a long history in the United States of capitalism having to be reigned in because its excesses led to a severe level of unfairness into the market. Alan Greenspan, a long time devotee of Ayn Rand, championed her anarchic vision for capitalism and has brought about, not simply the current economic crisis, but being in the position he was in for some time, helped to facilitate the usurping of other people's freedoms with the help of Henry Kissinger.
http://fray.slate.com/discuss/forums/post/3431219.aspx
Now, it would appear, that it is the American public's turn to feel a little oppression garnered by nothing less than the ideals they were taught to cherish of the Free Market. But even Alan Greenspan, a champion of Rand, has now had to bow under the unequivocal truth that Rand's philosophy was, at best, delusional. |
what is unfair in the market? Derivatives? short selling? its all fair. You have to be smart and hedge yourself. Don't go into a fund blindly which you don't understand. Ignorance does not equal unfairness. And the whole media hype behind goldman sachs this and short selling that is all bull when you look at the fine details. I don't want to get into it, but putting restrictions on the free market to me is almost the same as making blacks sit in the back of the bus. Both stupid and moronic.
Insider trading information and placing trades is wrong (we know this and people get killed on this all the time).
Full disclosure is necessary, but it is up to the consumer or customer as well to inquire about things they don't understand.
Peak oil is a reality. The higher the prices of oil go up and the sooner, the more likely we are to ween off this energy source and market something new. |
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| Nrg2Nfinit |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
I wish this wouldn't have happened but all it does is make more of a case for alternative energy sources, like the ones I'm invested in. So ummmm...hopefully I get rich from all this :( |
you will but you just have to wait several years or so. |
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| Lews |
| Goldman Sachs are a bunch of s and that's all I'm saying on the matter. |
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