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Feminism (pg. 8)
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| The17sss |
| quote: | Originally posted by Lilith
But you're not a psychologist (or more relevant- a sociologist) and judging by your earlier sledging, not exactly empathetic to anyone's position in life or how they ended up where they are. |
Trust me I know what I'm talking about. I know how people think, I know behavior, and I understand motives.
Do you think it makes you sound reasonable to claim that I "am not empathetic to anyone's position in life or how they ended up where they are"... because I refused to bow down to a notoriously opinionated and bossy internet personality? Because you don't agree with me doesn't mean I'm wrong. And I'm not. |
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| Jake Benson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
If you are an advocate for aboriginal rights, "good for you". If you are an advocate for minority rights, "good for you". If you are an advocate for gay/lesbian rights, it's starting to be more of "good for you". But if you are an advocate for women's rights, *cue roll eyes*.
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What about men's rights?
Why are there a disproportionate amount more strip clubs with female strippers than male strippers? Is it because you enjoy being chased? |
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by The17sss
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I'm too tired to respond to you at the moment, but if you re-read everything you wrote, you repeat over and over that women "lose their identity" or their "femininity" or "act like men" etc. and suggest that this is a negative thing aka you take issue with gender role deviance. Go back to your first few responses in the thread.
| quote: | Originally posted by Lira
Unless, of course, you happen to speak a Romance language. Then you're part of the linguistically oppressed female population of the Western world... |
Again, I do not think that women are oppressed by language, but languages do have a tendency to favour men.
"mankind"
"man - made"
"man - power"
"mail man/police man".
In using examples, people have a tendency to refer to the undefined individual by the personal pro-nouns "he", "him" etc. We also have a tendency to announce "Mr. and Mrs." but rarely "Mrs. and Mr."
Granted, we are slowly moving away from this by using "humankind" and using pronouns like "they".
These things may seem trivial, but they are founded from sexist values, where men were more important, and the woman essentially invisible. I will repeat, I do not necessarily think it oppresses women, but you can't deny that languages often don't recognize women nearly as often as men.
My example with Spanish/French about feminine/masculine wasn't really related to your response. I was referring to how, despite how many women may be in a group, if there is at least one man, the group should be referred to in the masculine form - ellos instead of ellas. This again, is preferential for men.
It seems silly to me to ignore the fact that languages developed in a patriarchal society would naturally adopt a lot of the values in forms of expression etc. I am really surprised that you are disagreeing with me on this.
Frankly, I don't really care a whole lot about language in terms of my feminist views.
| quote: | Originally posted by Fledz
Feminists by and large and detrimental to the general female population. "They are whiny bitches" may be crude, but it's pretty spot on.
Some women in large corporations also have this stupid idea in their heads that they need to prove themselves, when often they don't as they are in their position and being pushed forward because their potential has been realised.
Feminists are an extreme and extremism is generally negative.
I love it when over the top women piss of their biggest male supporters, and they don't even realise they should just shut the up and stop ruining it for the vast majority of other females. |
Sounds to me like you have had a negative experience with a feminist. It is hardly fair to pigeonhole all feminists into one category when there is a VERY broad spectrum of feminism.
Feminism is most certainly not an extreme. There are extreme feminists, but the feminist theory on the whole is not extreme, unless you think women being consider people is going too far.
As for it being detrimental to women... I think this is so beyond far from the truth. If it hadn't been for the feminist movement, women would still not be considered persons, they would still not be allowed to vote, they would still be property of their husbands, they would still be unable to have financial independence etc. etc. The list goes on. Feminism is what liberated women and is the very reason why women are able to live the lives they do today, and to me, that is a good thing.
| quote: | Originally posted by Jake Benson
What about men's rights?
Why are there a disproportionate amount more strip clubs with female strippers than male strippers? Is it because you enjoy being chased? |
I don't know whether to take some of these comments seriously, or if they are just straight trolling posts. |
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| Jake Benson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
I don't know whether to take some of these comments seriously, or if they are just straight trolling posts. |
Considering I'm an attention whore with almost NO straight clubs to strip at, take it seriously. I'm offended that I can't dance in a g-string anywhere in LA for women. This is pathetic. Where's MY equal right to be sexy and taken advantage of? I want women to slap MY ass.
Speaking of women's rights, why are producers of music like 85%+ male? |
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| Theresa |
| quote: | Originally posted by Jake Benson
Considering I'm an attention whore with almost NO straight clubs to strip at, take it seriously. I'm offended that I can't dance in a g-string anywhere in LA for women. This is pathetic. Where's MY equal right to be sexy and taken advantage of? I want women to slap MY ass.
Speaking of women's rights, why are producers of music like 85%+ male? |
LOL! Dude... you're ridiculous.
:haha: |
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| Jake Benson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
LOL! Dude... you're ridiculous.
:haha: |
I'm not the one that refuses to tip strippers.:p |
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| Fledz |
| My lord Theresa, you're either dense or completely incapable of understanding :stongue: |
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| Silky Johnson |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
If you are an advocate for aboriginal rights, "good for you". If you are an advocate for minority rights, "good for you". If you are an advocate for gay/lesbian rights, it's starting to be more of "good for you". |
Actually, by very definition, all of those things fall under the scope of feminism - as feminism is a movement that has to do with the politics of power and marginality. It's not just about women's rights. ;) |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Females represent a majority of the population.
Females represent a majority of the population. |
I back this. Equal rights movements for minorities don't encounter as much resistance because they apply to minorities and thus require society to change less of its behaviour less of the time. But women are not a minority, and so feminism attacks and criticises society's attitude to half of everyone in the world.
What's more, feminism is possibly the only equal rights movement frequently criticised by the people it's fighting for. It's not just men who don't like being told they're patriarchal and oppressive and must change. A lot of women don't like being told they're inferior and they should fight for equality. Being treated as an inferior is like being treated as a child: you may not be able to do everything you want, but the people who care about you look after you. That's a comfortable position for many people to be in. They would rather live in the comfort of limited slavery than have to fight as equals.
Aside from that, I also think feminism has done a spectacularly bad job at winning over neutrals. True feminism tends be very academic and thoughtful: even the most important feminist works such as The Second Sex or The Female Eunuch* are not the kind of reading the masses can get behind. Most people are anti-intellectual at the best of times, and when it's a woman activating those insecurities they're even more likely to be hostile and unreceptive. There has never really been a good translation of these big ideas into simple concepts the masses can digest, and so most of the people who criticise feminism have no real understanding of what it's trying to say.
*I should also add that these are some of the most populist femininist texts. Feminist writers like Hélène Cixous have absolutely no chance. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| women only want equal rights when it benefits them |
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| Ridexer |
| quote: | Originally posted by Theresa
Why is this a problem? Men have for years upon years valued career more than family... why can't women? Why is it necessary for a woman to be concerned with having children and being a mother? |
I don't think it's problem at all. The genes of these inviduals will die out rather quickly as they will pursue the succesfull masculine lifestyle. It's inevitable that the feminine women who "squeeze out" many kids will be more succesful than the career oriented women who get one or no kids at all. This will also lead into vicious circle where the children of these career women will be brought up to be well educated and will end up being equally succesfull to their parents.
*starts preparing popcorn* |
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| jdat |
Theresa with all due respect, you sound like a broken record who keeps repeating what you read in feminist pamphlets and books.
Contemporary feminism is not moderate, one could argue it's actually never been soft from it's basic inception where the main fight was for equality in the factory.(Never forget that men were involved in the fight from the start! Somehow most feminists seem to conveniently forget that).
From the 70s onward the new form of feminism has touted man hate left and right going as far as to try and break the nuclear family concept by forcing oneself to become a lesbian as a political act.
Being myself relatively involved in the alternative scene I am always amused and grossed out at the borderline behavior of it all. It's extremism at it's best, alienation of others at it's worst.
Starting with your first post in this thread you answered your own questions. People do not like extremist behavior and when that is the only voice of a movement that discredits everything associated with it.
There needs a rise of soft feminists, because these hardcore chicks who spit on men just because we have different chromosomes are most certainly not the ones who are going to bring change in the board room, the factory floor and even less at home.
A return to the basics so to speak is necessary. Equality was the main reason the movement started and that's been forgotten. Today to be a feminist is to hate men for being men.
Me, as a male, I cannot apologize for being born this gender, and when I get insulted for something as basic as the way I was born it makes me think feminists are a bunch of loonies.
ps: I lived with some feminists that were awesome and involved. Some feminists are cool and others can be utter c*nts. |
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