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How often do you go out to clubs to hear music? (pg. 6)
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| Fledz |
It's not a necessity in this point in time for me. I find plenty of great music that I absolutely love. Whether it's EDM or not, but it's largely singles. That works for me, and it works for most people that I play it for.
Not everyone is looking for the same thing. |
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| kitphillips |
Sorry, I didn't mean to make this an argument about albums. I was refering more to new music generally.
There ARE heaps of good albums out at the moment, but however you like to consume music is your choice.
My problem is with people around here who DON'T consume any music at all, can't name a recent artist and don't go out. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stu Cox
I guess you go to 'see' a band, but go to 'hear' a DJ. |
That's an interesting perspective and one that probably holds true for a lot of people, but not so much for me. Hopefully this doesn't come across as being arrogant, but I come from a much different background than most people here (and among the older), so I probably have a different perspective. Being a lifelong musician who formerly worked as a pro, I see live music as more of an "experience", not something that I just go to "see"/watch. A good live act IMO will interact with and envelope the audience, showcase their talent, and supplement the performance with a good light show, sound system, etc.
While much of that can be said of DJs, the level of talent required to do all that while displaying a proficient level of musicianship is orders of magnitude greater for musicians than it is for DJs. So, I don't mean any disrespect to DJs, but, as a musician, I find it very hard to be impressed by a guy playing pre-recorded music, so when I go to a club, I don't go to "hear a DJ" - I go to hear the music that a DJ is playing and to have a good time. Because of that, I think I find it more enjoyable/tolerable to experience a bad DJ than it is to experience a bad band. YMMV. |
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| Stu Cox |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
That's an interesting perspective and one that probably holds true for a lot of people, but not so much for me. Hopefully this doesn't come across as being arrogant, but I come from a much different background than most people here (and among the older), so I probably have a different perspective. Being a lifelong musician who formerly worked as a pro, I see live music as more of an "experience", not something that I just go to "see"/watch. A good live act IMO will interact with and envelope the audience, showcase their talent, and supplement the performance with a good light show, sound system, etc.
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I didn't mean that I see bands as less interesting to listen to... maybe I should have said "see and hear a band, but just hear a DJ" - and yeah that's a complete simplification to try to describe what I mean, either should be a complete experience (certainly for larger gigs and club nights).
It's because there's a whole lot more happening on stage with a band that it becomes the focal point. Where as at a good club night, the DJs themselves actually blend into the background and you're just left with the music. So I personally go to a club night for a different reason from why I'd go to a gig.
The fact that I generally (but certainly not always) prefer the club atmosphere is neither here nor there really, simply a preference... while you prefer the gig atmosphere/experience. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stu Cox
I think it's an environment thing. In a club setting, although the DJ is the main event, his/her music becomes the 'background' - you don't feel compelled to stare at the booth the whole time, you can wander off to the bar whenever you like without feeling you're missing anything, you can quite happily chat to someone for ages without feeling you're 'talking over' the act, etc... mixing is all part of keeping that background going.
As soon as there are some more live elements involved (someone singing, someone playing the guitar, even just synths etc), there's a tendancy to watch them - so it's all eyes on the stage and people naturally dance less because they're concentrating on what's they can see.
So I don't like live acts in the middle of a night of DJs because it completely changes the atmosphere - usually for the worse. In a lot of clubs there isn't a decent stage anyway, so everyone starts staring at the corner of the room. Live acts also very rarely tailor their set to the crowd too, which is one of the best things about seeing good DJs.
I do like going to see bands when it's all about the bands though: on a big stage, where you know you're seeing this band, then having a break, then seeing the next.
I guess you go to 'see' a band, but go to 'hear' a DJ. |
I suppose you're right, but I just think there would be a way of doing a pA that works, but they just never seem to be able to figure out the dynamics you mention, the PA kills the club element and vice versa.
| quote: | Originally posted by Sys J
Funny thing is I made a thread recently asking everyone here to list the new albums they heard in 2010, and everyone got extremely hostile and defensive, and very few people listed anything at all. I believe the common line was "Just because I don't listen to albums doesn't mean I don't hear new music!" Yeah. Right.
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That's because your intent with that thread was clearly divisive, and it was specifically meant to serve a predefined purpose, and I think it was those two things that got people certain people wound up. The thread was loaded from the outset.
Also, in fairness you have to realise that it was an MD discussion, posted on the Prod Forum, by someone who doesn't produce, nor has nay interest in doing so.
Personally, i don't listen to many albums at all - I just find I have incredibly low tolerance for filler, and only about one to two albums a year stand out for me. I do however listen to a ton of new music, so to infer you can't know music without listening to albums is utter nonsense to me. Firstly, most of the best music on albums is pre released as teasers or promos or by DJ's (etc) and many albums are really either a commercial cash in for the artists or an attempt for them to fulfill a personal statement. In too many cases one or two good songs gets slopped together with some other material that otherwise would not have been worth releasing to make an album. My ability tolerate that is virtually no existent.
it's the same with comedies - I find the average persons threshold for humor so unbelievably low. I can't watch 5 minutes of just about any hollywood comedy or TV that gets put out there.
Kind of the same with bands or live acts. I feel most people are happy to see mediocre performances because it's an "experience" to see live music. Again, my threshold for tolerance is incredibly low. |
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| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Funny thing is I made a thread recently asking everyone here to list the new albums they heard in 2010, and everyone got extremely hostile and defensive, and very few people listed anything at all. I believe the common line was "Just because I don't listen to albums doesn't mean I don't hear new music!" Yeah. Right. |
Just to add to what RANN posted, I'd say the issue with your previous query was that, when its intent could be measured, it seemed to come from a very pessimistic view-point while offering relatively little in terms of being constructive. You may not have intended it to come off that way, but that's how it came off. |
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| Zyklon_Jay |
the see vs heard argument really depends on who you are talking about.
For instance, on monday i saw Lady Gaga (not a fan, free tickets, free food, free booze = better than watching reruns of 2 1/2 men). While i could not stand the music, the show itself if viewed more along the lines of a broadway show is actually very good and better than most of the big touring acts. (i see most of them because of work related reasons.) Gag girl is an act to see not hear.
Now look at a band along the lines of Dream Theater. Their setup is next to nothing. The music is on show here, and i'll tell you that although i can't say i'm huge on the progressive rock side of the coin, this is a band to hear and not see. When you look at the crowd at their shows, many of them even close their eyes to enjoy the sounds.
We could say something similar about a band like tool, who do things like playing behind a white screen to drive the point home that this show is about music, not cheap pops. |
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| cryophonik |
| quote: | Originally posted by Stu Cox
...either should be a complete experience (certainly for larger gigs and club nights).
...So I personally go to a club night for a different reason from why I'd go to a gig. |
+1 to both.
| quote: | Originally posted by Stu Cox
The fact that I generally (but certainly not always) prefer the club atmosphere is neither here nor there really, simply a preference... while you prefer the gig atmosphere/experience. |
But, as mentioned, only if it the band is good. I spent much of my time back in the day as a live audio engineer and, believe me, I've never heard a DJ put on a show as bad as some of the worst live acts I've had the horror of trying to mix. :p |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
That's because your intent with that thread was clearly divisive, and it was specifically meant to serve a predefined purpose, and I think it was those two things that got people certain people wound up. The thread was loaded from the outset. |
Actually, the original post was perfectly innocuous. It was only when a couple of people became angry at the very notion of having to list their favourite music that I clarified. Yeah, I was proving a cynical point in an unscientific way. But it's pretty obvious from this thread that I'm not the only one making this point.
I personally find it ludicrous that any music lover doesn't listen to many albums. The album is the primary format for almost every type of music out there. Not bothering to listen to an entire format because you expect filler is like not bothering to listen to new music because you expect 95% of it to be e. How do you know which tracks are filler without hearing them?
Many of you guys paint a weird picture to me - you don't go clubbing, don't DJ and don't listen to albums. So... what? The majority of your music listening just involves playing one track at a time, like a pop kid shuffling through her iPod on the bus? Don't all those percussion intros stick in your teeth? |
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| cryophonik |
There seems to be a concerted effort here to paint TA producers in to a corner, based on some preconceived and incorrect notion that everybody here is striving to be the next AvB. Based on my years here, I think it's safe to say that most guys here love the fact that they have the opportunity to make music and maybe even get a few songs signed here and there, don't take themselves too seriously, have realistic goals and careers in mind, are just out to have a good time, make some music, improve their skills, etc. Whether they go to clubs, buy albums, or whatever really isn't relevant to anyone other than themselves. Yeah, maybe having a better understanding of what does and doesn't work on the dancefloor may help a little in terms of getting songs signed and played by DJs, but it's not a necessity for many people, particularly those of us who make music primarily to satisfy ourselves and only secondarily to please others. There's nothing wrong with that - it's amazing that producing music of high quality has become so accessible to virtually anybody with a computer and the drive to pursue it.
Anyway, it seems like the DJs here are taking the producers far more seriously than the producers take themselves. Just my observations. |
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| skyhunter |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
Yeah, maybe having a better understanding of what does and doesn't work on the dancefloor may help a little in terms of getting songs signed and played by DJs, but it's not a necessity for many people, particularly those of us who make music primarily to satisfy ourselves and only secondarily to please others. |
Yep. |
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Actually, the original post was perfectly innocuous. It was only when a couple of people became angry at the very notion of having to list their favourite music that I clarified. Yeah, I was proving a cynical point in an unscientific way. But it's pretty obvious from this thread that I'm not the only one making this point.
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No it wasn't perfectly innocuous or inert in it's positioning - there was a clear context and even somewhat of a challenge. I didn't care for it, but I could see what was going on, as did most other people, hence why that thread went off the rails. You knew perfectly well what you were doing.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I personally find it ludicrous that any music lover doesn't listen to many albums. The album is the primary format for almost every type of music out there. Not bothering to listen to an entire format because you expect filler is like not bothering to listen to new music because you expect 95% of it to be e. How do you know which tracks are filler without hearing them?
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I don't agree with you at all on this. I grew up around music and producers/songwriters. I've been listening to music for enough years to have made a conscious and informed decision that 99% of albums I've ever listened to are a couple of good tracks and a dozen or so crap or indistinct ones.
I don't need to listen to 14+ songs to find two good ones. I'm plugged in enough to music and people who listen to music, that if someone discovers a good song that knowledge is shared and thus I have access to new music or at least strange music without having to trawl through whole albums worth of filler. We have so many different ways of discovering new music on an individual track basis now the album has never been more irrelevant.
In that respect, I'm simply not arrogant enough to think I will find a spectacular album, chocked full of sublime artistry, that somehow no one I know or speak to regularly has not heard a single track from.
As I said, in most cases, the cuase ofr an album is guided by commercial incentive, as albums clearly equal far more money for labels and artists than singles (which indeed are basically bereft of any profit these days).
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Many of you guys paint a weird picture to me - you don't go clubbing, don't DJ and don't listen to albums. So... what? The majority of your music listening just involves playing one track at a time, like a pop kid shuffling through her iPod on the bus? Don't all those percussion intros stick in your teeth? |
Well go clubbing a few times a year, not often, but enough to satisfy me (and again maybe call me a club snob, but my threshold for what i consider a decent clubnight is rather high even by my own standards), I occasionally DJ at a couple of bars and friends parties,and have mates over to mix at least once a month and again I don't need to buy albums to fully immerse myself in music.
I'm not sure how you're reading the results, but nearly 3/4 of the votes in this thread indicate people do go out in some form or another and that 50% go out fairly regularly or more. I'd say you're looking at a pretty active bunch of clubbers here, especially as the age groups are so varied (some to young to get in to clubs for a good few years and some so old the produce on to wax cylinders). |
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