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How often do you go out to clubs to hear music? (pg. 7)
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
There seems to be a concerted effort here to paint TA producers in to a corner, based on some preconceived and incorrect notion that everybody here is striving to be the next AvB. Based on my years here, I think it's safe to say that most guys here love the fact that they have the opportunity to make music and maybe even get a few songs signed here and there, don't take themselves too seriously, have realistic goals and careers in mind, are just out to have a good time, make some music, improve their skills, etc. Whether they go to clubs, buy albums, or whatever really isn't relevant to anyone other than themselves. Yeah, maybe having a better understanding of what does and doesn't work on the dancefloor may help a little in terms of getting songs signed and played by DJs, but it's not a necessity for many people, particularly those of us who make music primarily to satisfy ourselves and only secondarily to please others. There's nothing wrong with that - it's amazing that producing music of high quality has become so accessible to virtually anybody with a computer and the drive to pursue it.
Anyway, it seems like the DJs here are taking the producers far more seriously than the producers take themselves. Just my observations. |
Very well said. |
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| EddieZilker |
When I posted this...
| quote: | Originally posted by EddieZilker
Personally, I think it's an economy of scale which raises some questions that may or may not have relevance other than the correlations they imply.
1) What's the over-all ratio of producers to DJ's in regular rotation playing out in clubs?
2) How many producers, here in this forum, take the time to listen to DJ's, who also post on TA?
3) How many DJ's, here, take the time to listen and offer constructive advice to Producers, here?
I'm surmising the answers to the last two questions reveal a bit of a gulf between the DJ and the producer. If that gulf exists or is even consequential, in the grand scheme of things, remains to be seen but it seems to speak to an over-all disconnect between the producer and the DJ that I don't think is doing either, any favors. |
Which lead to this...
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
See the post below you for why its still true. Most people in the production forum still like trance, they don't go to clubs to listen to music 9/10 times IMO. There are a few regulars who that doesn't apply to, but overall, most of the "producers" here are either kids who are too young to go out or older guys who don't like it any more.
In my opinion Eddie is spot on. Most of the stuff that comes out of this forum lacks distinctiveness because the producers here don't go out in search of new genres or tracks. Look at the hostility that gets shown towards dubstep here. Even worse, the new tracks they do hear seem to be ones they've heard on the radio, which totally distorts your perception of any new genre that does come along.
Generally, producers on TA just aren't plugged into the scene in any meaningful way, and that's why their productions are boring, they've been doing the same and chasing the same sound since 2002, and its grown completely stale for them. |
Which started this thread, and continued a conversation in the other one, I kind of had some high hopes that we might be able to get on some form of the same page. It definitely wasn't my intention to corral anyone's position. I just thought it would be interesting to discuss the possibilities of having members of the music production studio be able to speak with TA DJ's in order to better facilitate mutually beneficial dialogue.
I'm quite unsure of that prospect, now. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
No it wasn't perfectly innocuous or inert in it's positioning - there was a clear context and even somewhat of a challenge. I didn't care for it, but I could see what was going on, as did most other people, hence why that thread went off the rails. You knew perfectly well what you were doing. |
| quote: | List all the new albums you heard in 2010
List the full albums, from 2010, that you've heard in the last twelve months. If you can't remember them all that's not a problem, just the ones that had the most impact on you. Feel free to discuss the influence they had on your music-making. |
I knew what I was doing, but I really don't see why the above (my OP, verbatim) should inspire immediate hostility from people with no context. And yet it did.
| quote: | | I don't agree with you at all on this. I grew up around music and producers/songwriters. I've been listening to music for enough years to have made a conscious and informed decision that 99% of albums I've ever listened to are a couple of good tracks and a dozen or so crap or indistinct ones. |
Yeah, most albums are . Again, most music is . You seem to be telling me that either:
A) None of the artists who make all this music you keep up with ever bring out albums.
B) They do, but you deliberately avoid listening to them. If a track doesn't come out on single or promo, you'll never hear it.
Otherwise, I don't see how anyone who keeps up with as much new music as you claim to do doesn't hear at least a dozen new albums a year, simply because artists are always releasing them. With services like Spotify and the ease of piracy, it's incredibly easy to pre-listen to an album before you decide whether to buy. Since I've got Spotify, the amount of full albums I've been listening to has gone through the roof.
Although you're incredibly vague over what new music you do hear. I never hear any names dropped or tracks posted. It'd help me get a clearer picture of where you're at if you did some of that here.
| quote: | | I'm not sure how you're reading the results, but nearly 3/4 of the votes in this thread indicate people do go out in some form or another and that 50% go out fairly regularly or more. I'd say you're looking at a pretty active bunch of clubbers here, especially as the age groups are so varied (some to young to get in to clubs for a good few years and some so old the produce on to wax cylinders). |
That's a very generous reading. The way I see it, only a quarter of the voters go out at all regularly, and at least one of those voters was me and I'm guessing another one was Jay. |
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| Fledz |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
That's a very generous reading. The way I see it, only a quarter of the voters go out at all regularly, and at least one of those voters was me and I'm guessing another one was Jay. |
To be fair, the question isn't as clear as it could be. I read it as how often do you specifically go out for the sole purpose of actually going "clubbing", not how often do you go out and hear music. If you asked me the second question, it would be "Virtually 100% of the time" because there is always music out there.
I may not head out on a Friday night to see a specific person, but I'll probably end up on the dancefloor, hear a new act, hear new music, potentially download some sets and hear even more music. Does this mean I went out clubbing though? Not necessarily.
I think that's where a lot of the confusion stems from. |
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| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
Many of you guys paint a weird picture to me - you don't go clubbing, don't DJ and don't listen to albums. So... what?
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I sometimes agree with you but here you are dead wrong, and yes I'm sure of it.
I've read and or watched every big producer interview in FM the 3 years and a very very common theme comes out all the time. Many of them claim to never listen to edm in thier spare time, indeed many cite listening to indie or classical for pleasure. Secondly it's very obvious a good many of them are pretty much quiet middle class unfunky people who never club.
Take for example Eddie Thoneick - he's a Dentist by day and he said in the interview he only listens to rock and indie in his down time!
There's a prolific UK house producer - forgotton his name, who literally makes 3 tracks per week - he has a bow tie in very middle class aura - 2 kids, nice house - every bit the bank manager. People like him have an incredible work ethic and that keeps them current, without ever setting foot in a club. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by cryophonik
There seems to be a concerted effort here to paint TA producers in to a corner, based on some preconceived and incorrect notion that everybody here is striving to be the next AvB. Based on my years here, I think it's safe to say that most guys here love the fact that they have the opportunity to make music and maybe even get a few songs signed here and there, don't take themselves too seriously, have realistic goals and careers in mind, are just out to have a good time, make some music, improve their skills, etc. Whether they go to clubs, buy albums, or whatever really isn't relevant to anyone other than themselves. Yeah, maybe having a better understanding of what does and doesn't work on the dancefloor may help a little in terms of getting songs signed and played by DJs, but it's not a necessity for many people, particularly those of us who make music primarily to satisfy ourselves and only secondarily to please others. There's nothing wrong with that - it's amazing that producing music of high quality has become so accessible to virtually anybody with a computer and the drive to pursue it.
Anyway, it seems like the DJs here are taking the producers far more seriously than the producers take themselves. Just my observations. |
IMO, producers here take themselves extremely seriously. And personally, I'm not thinking that anyone here wants to be a big DJ, but I do have a problem with the fact that (if they were aspiring) they'd aspire to Armin, who's hey day was nearly a decade ago now IMO. That indicates that there is a serious problem with people here not keeping current.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
I personally find it ludicrous that any music lover doesn't listen to many albums. The album is the primary format for almost every type of music out there. Not bothering to listen to an entire format because you expect filler is like not bothering to listen to new music because you expect 95% of it to be e. How do you know which tracks are filler without hearing them?
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To be fair, I don't think this holds in dance music. While I think it is an IMPORTANT format, its a massive overstatement to say that its the primary format. That would be either livesets/podcasts for most people these days, and in the past may have been mixed CDs. The EP would also hold a strong contention for being the most important. Most artists don't even release albums.
Dance music has never been about albums IMO, because it's always had a different focus. Where albums were helpful for rock acts to showcase their "talents" and "diversity", dance music has always had more of an emphasis on using tracks as tools in a DJ set, and has always approached things in a more leftfield way. The album as a concept is hackneyed and out of fashion across all genres, but especially dance.
That said, a good album > everything. Every time.
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
That's a very generous reading. The way I see it, only a quarter of the voters go out at all regularly, and at least one of those voters was me and I'm guessing another one was Jay. |
Yeah, agree here. RANN, look at the figures again dude... You need to go out every 3 weeks or more to be really clued in IMO, unless you have a whole lot of friends into the same music you can chat to outside of clubs. |
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| kitphillips |
| quote: | Originally posted by Richard Butler
I sometimes agree with you but here you are dead wrong, and yes I'm sure of it.
I've read and or watched every big producer interview in FM the 3 years and a very very common theme comes out all the time. Many of them claim to never listen to edm in thier spare time, indeed many cite listening to indie or classical for pleasure. Secondly it's very obvious a good many of them are pretty much quiet middle class unfunky people who never club.
Take for example Eddie Thoneick - he's a Dentist by day and he said in the interview he only listens to rock and indie in his down time!
There's a prolific UK house producer - forgotton his name, who literally makes 3 tracks per week - he has a bow tie in very middle class aura - 2 kids, nice house - every bit the bank manager. People like him have an incredible work ethic and that keeps them current, without ever setting foot in a club. |
Ergh dude... You're missing the point that a lot of those people are out DJing every weekend... They don't need to go out in their spare time, because they're out for work;)
Most clubbers I know are very quiet middle class people who just happen to like to absolutely smash it on the weekend - again, in a quiet, low key way. They're the ones who have been going out for 10-20 years. I don't know what clubs you go to where this isn't the case, or what impression you have of clubbing generally.
I have no idea who eddie Thonieck is tbh either, and you're missing another fact. Those people all have friends who like EDM, they hear about it when they go out for coffee, they don't need to go clubbing to meet and chat to like minded people. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by kitphillips
To be fair, I don't think this holds in dance music. While I think it is an IMPORTANT format, its a massive overstatement to say that its the primary format. That would be either livesets/podcasts for most people these days, and in the past may have been mixed CDs. The EP would also hold a strong contention for being the most important. Most artists don't even release albums.
Dance music has never been about albums IMO, because it's always had a different focus. Where albums were helpful for rock acts to showcase their "talents" and "diversity", dance music has always had more of an emphasis on using tracks as tools in a DJ set, and has always approached things in a more leftfield way. The album as a concept is hackneyed and out of fashion across all genres, but especially dance.
That said, a good album > everything. Every time. |
In fairness, I didn't specify EDM at any point. I just asked for albums. While I believe it's important for producers of dance music to be connected to the dancefloor, obviously listening to albums isn't the best way to do that. My suspicion is that for a lot of people here, making music and getting deeply involved in production has killed off their passion for just listening to it. It's a common theme I see amongst aspiring musicians I know in real life. It's very easy to just stop listening to music because you're always thinking about making it. What's more, by no longer bringing yourself into regular contact with the new and unfamiliar, you tend to shrink into conservatism and stagnation.
It's harder than ever to keep up with good music, because the decentralisation of the music industry has created an ever-increasing divide between what's popular and what's worth hearing. What's popular is ever-more manufactured and commodified, because with so little money to be made, profit-driven major labels need to play it as safe as possible. There's less room than ever for creativity and experimentation in the realm of popular music. The good stuff becomes increasingly niche, often buried under the avalanche of easily produced and distributed music. If you take your eye off the ball for too long in this environment, you can lose sight of interesting and creative music entirely. You become convinced that music is terrible, you get conservative and you feel dislocated and purposeless. You start making music as it sounded 10 years ago, because there's nothing good out there to fit in with. It all leads towards stagnation, because there's a lack of belief that there's a place for good music and therefore a lack of belief in the creation of worthwhile art. |
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| Beatflux |
| quote: | Originally posted by SYSTEM-J
You become convinced that music is terrible, you get conservative and you feel dislocated and purposeless. You start making music as it sounded 10 years ago, because there's nothing good out there to fit in with. It all leads towards stagnation, because there's a lack of belief that there's a place for good music and therefore a lack of belief in the creation of worthwhile art. |
Personally, I think my tastes of have changed for better or worse. I used to love that cheesy commercial trance sound, but now its too simple. I remember I used to hate track like Lethal Industry because they were in minor, but now I appreciate them much more now.
It used to seem like the "good old days" were the heyday for music, but I think it boils down a kid liking crap. lol
Reminds me of the time I trusted my younger cousins to pick out a movie for us to watch. Big mistake. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| Care to share a shred of evidence of your awesomeness? |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| quote: | Originally posted by clay
take my word on it. |
No. Now shut the up. |
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| SYSTEM-J |
| That's not going to happen. Neither is you posting any music or mixes, because you've got nothing. |
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