|
What is the status of current label situation on the music market? (pg. 12)
|
View this Thread in Original format
| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
Ok, let's just totally bypass the fact, why we are where we are.
just look back the last 2 to 3 years to any reaction from L4C to me or many others on the forum. It's just pure insulting and utter e and after ignoring it for a long time, even asking him via PM why he does this, the guy just can't stop. And i'm no longer putting up with his crap, not to me or to anyone else. I find it even more idiotic that others find this normal behaviour. |
I've seen the interactions you two have had and the suggestion that you're somehow blameless in this isn't exactly accurate. He's called you out on what he believes/knows to be wrong and while you've argued, I've yet to see you back up those arguments in a meaningful way. The exchange between you and Cryo, in his compressor thread, is an example of how I've read your arguments. They are conjecture; nothing more than verbally refusing to accept another person's claims as true. There isn't really substantiation to them. To exacerbate that, you're usually the one who heats things up with some bit of antagonism, as though because the other person is saying you're wrong, you have been unfairly attacked.
You're the one who lets his ego get wrapped up in insignificant bull instead of focusing on what you can prove and how you can prove it. You employ strawmen logical fallacies (i.e. saying that cryo - of ALL people - was arguing that software is better than hardware), reply with consistent haughtiness, and can be generally unpleasant if someone has an opinion contrary to your own. But you're the one with the problem. 90% of the time, the conflicts you're engaged in are the result of a misunderstanding occurring or perpetuated on your part. |
|
|
| Storyteller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
Ok, let's just totally bypass the fact, why we are where we are.
just look back the last 2 to 3 years to any reaction from L4C to me or many others on the forum. It's just pure insulting and utter e and after ignoring it for a long time, even asking him via PM why he does this, the guy just can't stop. And i'm no longer putting up with his crap, not to me or to anyone else. I find it even more idiotic that others find this normal behaviour. |
I believe I'm one of those. Internet is harsh and the words don't carry emotions so it's hard to interpret correctly. Your choice of words often provokes an allergic reaction (to me) which I feel very much inclined to respond to. I find you a poor debater on these forums because (I believe) you leave no room for other opinions. I am quite opinionated on many subjects but believe I'm also reasonably open to being convinced if good arguments are supplied to the conversation. Particularly in a discussion as this one things are very much influenced by ones own experience.
What I personally noticed in the last few pages is that me and L4C moreso focused on the potential when producers/dj's start seeing the bigger picture, while you, Raphie, keep repeating noone can earn a dime with Beatport. But where L4C and I seem to notice there is more than Beatport, Raphie just falls back into the stereotype image that small-time artist can't make money. I see plenty of artists (I work for a free Dutch underground music magazine available country wide) making money in experimental en interesting ways I myself would never believe would have been possible.
This discussion simply cannot be answered with a true or false while you implicitly and explicitly state we're wrong several parts. What I am missing is on what grounds you believe that is so. That last part is what I would consider an interesting contribution to this discussion and frankly, I haven't seen much of that from your end.
Edit: Mister Zilker nailed it while I've been typing and overthinking every word. |
|
|
| EddieZilker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
Edit: Mister Zilker nailed it while I've been typing and overthinking every word. |
I actually thought you put it better than I did but it is interesting that we pretty much said the same thing. |
|
|
| Raphie |
| Ok, it's fine you're right, I'm wrong, I've shared how i feel, don't want to be here anymore. Zilker, M4B and Storyteller, I'm out, only a few more left after me, before you've got your own little private forum. |
|
|
| Storyteller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
Ok, it's fine you're right, I'm wrong, I've shared how i feel, don't want to be here anymore. Zilker, M4B and Storyteller, I'm out, only a few more left after me, before you've got your own little private forum. |
No. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm asking you to explain why you see things differently than others (me specifically). The fact that you have a different opinion than I do is perfectly fine, I would just like you to tell us on what experience/numbers/information you base your findings so we can assess for ourselves if we should change our opinion. I want to understand where you're coming from, what helped you form your opinion. Sharing knowledge. That's it.
It is not my intention to hurt your feelings or have you leave. I am eager for knowledge and opinion. Preferably not black or white, but gray, elaborate, detailed and well argumented. |
|
|
| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
It is not my intention to hurt your feelings or have you leave. I am eager for knowledge and opinion. Preferably not black or white, but gray,
elaborate, detailed and well argumented. |
This sound really reasonable to me and no, I don't want you to leave this forum at all (Raphie), really value your take on a lot of different subjects man and I can leave if that's will take to make you stay lol
Will contact you soon with some work on my track man.
Cheers,
Darek |
|
|
| Raphie |
The scope of this topic was for me US as avg EDM producer, we will make NO money on beatport, ofcourse there is life after beatport and people can still make money in pop Billboard setting, or with gigs.
But that speaks for itself and does not need to be pointed out. The question as i understood was, will you, M4B, Zilker or anyone else ever make serious money with their music, the answer is no.
Then i pointed out that for US it's easier to make money on the producers ecosystem rather than releasing. either with engineering services, samplepacks or patches. Or as you currently explore in online services. What's so hard to understand about that?
We are not talking, guetta, Usher or bieber here. We are talking TA forum members.
That's how I see it. and there comes M4B: "You will never make money with your subpar productions..." HELLO that's not the topic, The topic was not "will Raphie make money on EDM", but IS there money in RELEASING EDM, but that's where M4B is just being the again, changing the scope and making things personal again. and you and Zilker can't wait to put your finger into it. you read what you want to read and kiss eachothers ass. I've had enough of it. don't care wether this is my feeling of TA, or reality, I've, just like many before me, have enough of you 3, in these opinionated topics.
Life is just to short.... |
|
|
| cryophonik |
Wow. I haven't read most of this, so I have no idea what led to the page or so that I did read, but I guess poor Raphie's feeling a little battered and bruised by now.
Raphie - EZ's and Storyteller's posts above nailed it. Show a little humility. You're not the end-all-be-all mastering engineer that you think you are. Buying a studio full of nice expensive gear did not give you ultimate knowledge or excellent hearing and nobody's buying it when you claim that you do. Open your mind a bit. Regardless of who you are or where you've been or what gear you own, there are people around you who can teach you a thing or two.
As for L4C, regardless of how you feel about his brashness, he can take it better than anybody on this forum. People who can't take criticism or abuse have generally never lasted very long in the music industry. I guess it's safe to say that the internet hasn't changed that. From my perspective, whenever he "attacks" you, he is basically just responding to some of your arrogant claims and telling you put up or shut up. Responding by taking your ball and going home shows quite clearly that you need a few more lessons in humility.
[/Raphie bashing (for me, at least)]
Overall, I think Raphie's a nice chap. :) |
|
|
| Storyteller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Raphie
The scope of this topic was for me US as avg EDM producer, we will make NO money on beatport, ofcourse there is life after beatport and people can still make money in pop Billboard setting, or with gigs.
But that speaks for itself and does not need to be pointed out. The question as i understood was, will you, M4B, Zilker or anyone else ever make serious money with their music, the answer is no.
Then i pointed out that for US it's easier to make money on the producers ecosystem rather than releasing. either with engineering services, samplepacks or patches. Or as you currently explore in online services. What's so hard to understand about that?
We are not talking, guetta, Usher or bieber here. We are talking TA forum members. |
Thanks. The way your post is structured it makes plenty of sense and for some reason I couldn't get that information quite as clearly out of the bunch of seperate posts earlier.
I'm fairly optimistic if someone dares to think over the current businessmodel and audience and how both could be improved. A big if, but if it works making a decent income with music might be more realistic than most of us think it is. |
|
|
| Raphie |
I've never claimed to "be" anyone, I've got a pretty nice studio, make decent money with it, have a returning customer set who find value in my work and i'm proud of that. I know i'm a mediocre producer/writer, Never claimed I was topgun. But people find value in my engineering and that's good enough for me. So in that way i'm humble. Nevertheless I still share snippets of my own works in progress and probably squeeze out a new album by the end of this year, not with high anticipation, but just for me and the few who like my work. I'll never be the next Deadmau5. But to be honest guys neither will ANY of us here be.
And regarding criticism, got NO issue with that, but there is a thin line between feedback, or consistent off-topic bashing. |
|
|
| Raphie |
As i mentioned I understood you are exploring new models, I hope these will be succesful, but that's exactly as i refer to as the "ecosystem"
So we're on the same page there
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
Thanks. The way your post is structured it makes plenty of sense and for some reason I couldn't get that information quite as clearly out of the bunch of seperate posts earlier.
I'm fairly optimistic if someone dares to think over the current businessmodel and audience and how both could be improved. A big if, but if it works making a decent income with music might be more realistic than most of us think it is. |
|
|
|
| Storyteller |
3 Grammy's for Skrillex. EDM keeps getting more popular with the old boys back in the US of A. Now if only we could monetize from that :P...
Oh well, in due time! |
|
|
|
|
