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What is the status of current label situation on the music market? (pg. 19)
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| DJ RANN |
| quote: | Originally posted by Richard Butler
Very lucid post Rann.
I've been saying again and again that it's the same with many different sectors, for example writing books, where only a tiny minority strike gold. The head of Goldsmiths art college in London said only 1 or 2% of his graduates go on to make meaningful money out of painting and sculpture.
Same with acting, dancing and any other creative field. If you aint't selling you probably aren't giving the public something they want.
There's an old Turkish seaside town called Kalcan which has about 60 restaurants. Some of the owners are gloomy and say life ain't fair. Others are booming. The ONLY difference between them is in the ownners understanding of what customers want. So many people only want to deliver 60% of a service and then moan they attract no customers.
This thing about 'great artists going unnoticed' is something we hear from all artistic scenes. People imply it isn't fair. Utter nonsense, it's perfectly fair, and just the way it is. No one is entitled to a thing.
Sure 'that band' you know from down the pub are tallented, and sure the singer is great, but in the end no different to a million other buskers on the subway. Do they really bring anything new and different? Most don't.
We might know a very tallented pianist, but really he delivers the very same fayre that a thousand predecesors delivered. Unless he's truly outstanding he wont make a dime, just as only the very best magicians make the big time.
I've got to be honest and say I find J00F to be one of these idealists. I read his rants and cry out in support, then I go listen to this 'special' music he's on about and find it's nothing at all new or differnet, just another portion of the same.
I myself struggle immensely to be original, it's a battle I may never win, but I never feel this sense of injustice or unfariness that others ellude to. If I suck, I deserve no more than crumbs. |
Absolutely true and I'm glad this thread/conversion has got the point of dispelling the myth that there's "no music in EDM". There most certainly is, it's just the economics are markedly different from 10 or 15 years ago.
Both you and Storyteller raise the point it's incredibly difficult to start a business - I cannot begin to express how true this is;
I currently co-own a retail and services company that was started just under two years ago, right in the depths of the recession, and in a market that is very saturated.
Due to the need for a visa, I was forced to do an incredibly detailed business plan (80+ pages is basically unheard of for a small retail business) but it made me examine ever possible facet of the industry and our potential business model. I know, down to the penny, what revenue I have to do on any given day to break even.
After a year of the hardest work I think I've ever put in to anything, we were just about breaking even, with every penny going back in to the business and in speaking to our accountant he noted our frsutration at not being further along; his sage wisdom was that any new business in this climate, is just trying to survive, not break even in the first year, and doing well is breaking even by the 2 year point. By year three, making a modest profit and year 4 is the comfort zone.
I don't expect to really be able to pay myself anything decent for another year. This is how business are now, so whatever you do, make sure you have at least 1 year's entire expenses, with a contingency of 15%, to weather the startup period.
On a different note, there two other things that are being disucssed here that I feel quite strongly about :
The first is the "competition" aspect that was just mentioned - I'm not sure competition is the right word (it's certainly part of it) but if you look at any period of valued creation there is both competition and a mutual creative contribution to a movement that simultaneously happens. Look at the renaissance period - both healthy competition and
mutually beneficial creative environment of all involved to advance their art and creation. It's also something that feeds itself - people feed off it, and without getting too deep or spiritual (because I'm neither) the energy of it and grows exponentially.
It's the reason my former boss (major score composer) loved to constantly surround himself and worth with other people who were insanely talented - he both loved the competition and being immersed in the mutual creativity of others, and he did the same for them; bringing out things that they didn't know they had.
I've said this before but It's what i believe happened in the 90's with dance music and why EDM has struggled since to regain that abundance of creativity since then - it was a group of musicians and experimenters doing something new that totally enthused them, and that competition and shared creative experience pushed EDM's envelope intensely.
The second thing is a cultural issue that somewhat ties in to what I just posted - I'm not saying Richard is being defeatist by any stretch, but at least in business, the greatest divide between the UK (maybe even Europe?) and the USA, is the supportive business environment. IME, In london, you did something new, unique or outstanding, people just wanted to steal, deface or copy you.
IN the USA or at last here in Cali, there is a completely different mentality - if you do something new, unique or outstanding, people want to be a part of it, and help it, even if the benefit is to themselves in the long run. I've met so many people who have helped us as a company, just because they wanted to be associated with it, and in turn we have helped them. It's this amazing synergistic support thing, and it grows a network of people that support each other in business. I've never experienced it like I have here in the states and sure there are the odd scammers, ripoffs and people who try to bring you down, but they are the exception and vastly outweighed by the people who want to grow with you.
Hopefully, music will do the same thing, at least here in the US and hopefully Europe. |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Absolutely true and I'm glad this thread/conversion has got the point of dispelling the myth that there's "no music in EDM". There most certainly is, it's just the economics are markedly different from 10 or 15 years ago.
Both you and Storyteller raise the point it's incredibly difficult to start a business - I cannot begin to express how true this is;
I currently co-own a retail and services company that was started just under two years ago, right in the depths of the recession, and in a market that is very saturated.
Due to the need for a visa, I was forced to do an incredibly detailed business plan (80+ pages is basically unheard of for a small retail business) but it made me examine ever possible facet of the industry and our potential business model. I know, down to the penny, what revenue I have to do on any given day to break even.
After a year of the hardest work I think I've ever put in to anything, we were just about breaking even, with every penny going back in to the business and in speaking to our accountant he noted our frsutration at not being further along; his sage wisdom was that any new business in this climate, is just trying to survive, not break even in the first year, and doing well is breaking even by the 2 year point. By year three, making a modest profit and year 4 is the comfort zone.
I don't expect to really be able to pay myself anything decent for another year. This is how business are now, so whatever you do, make sure you have at least 1 year's entire expenses, with a contingency of 15%, to weather the startup period.
On a different note, there two other things that are being disucssed here that I feel quite strongly about :
The first is the "competition" aspect that was just mentioned - I'm not sure competition is the right word (it's certainly part of it) but if you look at any period of valued creation there is both competition and a mutual creative contribution to a movement that simultaneously happens. Look at the renaissance period - both healthy competition and
mutually beneficial creative environment of all involved to advance their art and creation. It's also something that feeds itself - people feed off it, and without getting too deep or spiritual (because I'm neither) the energy of it and grows exponentially.
It's the reason my former boss (major score composer) loved to constantly surround himself and worth with other people who were insanely talented - he both loved the competition and being immersed in the mutual creativity of others, and he did the same for them; bringing out things that they didn't know they had.
I've said this before but It's what i believe happened in the 90's with dance music and why EDM has struggled since to regain that abundance of creativity since then - it was a group of musicians and experimenters doing something new that totally enthused them, and that competition and shared creative experience pushed EDM's envelope intensely.
The second thing is a cultural issue that somewhat ties in to what I just posted - I'm not saying Richard is being defeatist by any stretch, but at least in business, the greatest divide between the UK (maybe even Europe?) and the USA, is the supportive business environment. IME, In london, you did something new, unique or outstanding, people just wanted to steal, deface or copy you.
IN the USA or at last here in Cali, there is a completely different mentality - if you do something new, unique or outstanding, people want to be a part of it, and help it, even if the benefit is to themselves in the long run. I've met so many people who have helped us as a company, just because they wanted to be associated with it, and in turn we have helped them. It's this amazing synergistic support thing, and it grows a network of people that support each other in business. I've never experienced it like I have here in the states and sure there are the odd scammers, ripoffs and people who try to bring you down, but they are the exception and vastly outweighed by the people who want to grow with you.
Hopefully, music will do the same thing, at least here in the US and hopefully Europe. |
Absolutely the right stuff/info people over here should, at least, have a good read about or pay attention to.
Cheers,
Darek |
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| lenieNt Force |
| quote: | Originally posted by Rodri Santos
that works more or less like internet bandwith , you can have 5 paralell downloads each at 500kbps for a total of 2,5mbps/second or you can have just one running at 1'5 mpbs. If you want a global maximum proficiency it's better to multi task. |
No.. cause the pauses it takes to continually shift between the tasks, the wavering back and forth eventually mounts up and weakens your focus power and efficiency. Full Focus is the most powerful property of the human mind. When you are in that state, suddenly your sub conscious mind, or higher self, or the superconscious, or your dreams, or the divine or whatever, or all at once, starts working for you in solving the problems at hand and guiding you in the right direction. The magnitude of ripple effects and repercussions following full focus is so much greater than multitasking could ever, ever evoke. |
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| lenieNt Force |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceLover007
He,he,he... I know, is almost impossible the way you guys look it, sound really scary and legal have stuff lol - don't get me wrong, it is not going to be an easy task but is not that difficult to do that and manage basic operation on daily bases (again, without going into any details).
For now I need some more research on legal (contract) issue and scalable server/traffic support, the rest of the stuff I can figure out on my own or with some support from M.
Remember, I don't want to be the "one" who will tell the buyer who is the guy/artist/producer you should buy, I want the marker to tall me which of those artists/producers is the most popular at particular time, I want to be self regulated, almost like run by people (let's call that underground) where, even local artist with some local support of 1000 or more people (who wants/will buy them of course) will come and do their shopping because this would be only one place they will be able to find that/this artist or producer (damn it, no details lol) - so this is what make is so different and unique!!!
Cheers,
Darek |
Cant you sell you music through soundcloud now and take 100% of the cake, with all the new apps? You should check that out!
See:
VibeDeck
Ganxy Direct-To-Fan
DIY Music
Goodsie
Moontoast Impulse
Wazala |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| everything i said is slanted by that pose, I don't like it, I don't like your name, and i don't like your age. 3 strikes. And your idea , well if it was good, I would steal it. I don't feel like stealing it. It probably isn't good. Maybe you just pain a really bad public picture. I do. I 'm really a soft well mannered glasses wearing guy that makes you feel like you've just had some xanax and i'm just hugging you with good vibes and . No but seriously, I am as much a douche in person but i think the humour translates better. Like if i said , your idea is ing retarded and thru an sm58 and your head, see totally different. It a new game thats getting pretty popular on the east coast. Like duck hunt with runners and shure microphones. ANd you can use cords for like wrap around throws and lasso type . Its really catching on real fast. |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by lenieNt Force
Cant you sell you music through soundcloud now and take 100% of the cake, with all the new apps? You should check that out!
See:
VibeDeck
Ganxy Direct-To-Fan
DIY Music
Goodsie
Moontoast Impulse
Wazala |
Good info for a lot of people over here lol, it is one of many different ways of getting your product up there, thank man!!!
Cheers,
Darek |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
everything i said is slanted by that pose, I don't like it, I don't like your name, and i don't like your age. 3 strikes. And your idea , well if it was good, I would steal it. I don't feel like stealing it. It probably isn't good. Maybe you just pain a really bad public picture. I do. I 'm really a soft well mannered glasses wearing guy that makes you feel like you've just had some xanax and i'm just hugging you with good vibes and . No but seriously, I am as much a douche in person but i think the humour translates better. Like if i said , your idea is ing retarded and thru an sm58 and your head, see totally different. It a new game thats getting pretty popular on the east coast. Like duck hunt with runners and shure microphones. ANd you can use cords for like wrap around throws and lasso type . Its really catching on real fast. |
You don't even know how pathetic you sound the "One" dude, I simply rest my case with you, it is pointless, freaking pointless.
Cheers,
Darek |
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| Looney4Clooney |
| that was kinda mean. What the did i do ? |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
that was kinda mean. What the did i do ? |
Man, you are very interesting subject (intellectually speaking) with unbelivaly bright mind but for some reason you stuck yourself around people who are complementing you all the time (or most of the time) and that will never, ever let you evolve the way as you should. I hate but kissing and respect guys who will stand their ground --> you are one of those guys (but with very limited creative capability which most of the time choose to bitching or wining about how everything in our live is stupid and pointless) and for that is still have some of my respect for you.
As far as my thick skin, I have been through a lot in my live an people like you make my live more exiting and more fun --> I love challenge and I hope that this is only the beginning.
Cheers,
Darek |
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| Looney4Clooney |
lol
Well i can tell you that you are rather off on your analysis. I am pretty much entirely motivated via intrinsic means. I actually prefer criticism. I can honestly say i've never needed a pat on the back for anything i've ever done. I just don't care. In fact compliments would make me more complacent than anything. I much prefer someone tell me i suck and can't do it. That is much more motivating than a compliment. WHy do you insist on analyzing me without any information. I mean you have absolutely no idea who. I mean i started producing EDM because i said it was easy to do and some guy said well do it, and I did it. Same with djing. I actually love a challenge.
And not liking you is not a good reason to not like me.
I was raised by an Irish man. The only thing they will say is do it better and get me a beer. I don't need people to tell me things i already know. I am my worst critic , and unless you have something to make me better, i don't want to hear it. HOnestly, if you start using the sandwich technique, i would tell you to off , stop wasting my time and say what you have to say.
UNless we are making love. Then you say nice things. |
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| Rodri Santos |
| well simply good luck with whatever you start, competence in edm is cruel, but at the same time is so ed up that something that starts from the ground can work, keep us tuned of how it goes. |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Looney4Clooney
lol
Well i can tell you that you are rather off on your analysis. I am pretty much entirely motivated via intrinsic means. I actually prefer criticism. I can honestly say i've never needed a pat on the back for anything i've ever done. I just don't care. In fact compliments would make me more complacent than anything. I much prefer someone tell me i suck and can't do it. That is much more motivating than a compliment. WHy do you insist on analyzing me without any information. I mean you have absolutely no idea who. And not liking you is not a good reason to not like me.
I was raised by an Irish man. The only thing they will say is do it better. I don't need people to tell me things i already know. I am my worst critic , and unless you have something to make me better, i don't want to hear it. HOnestly, if you start using the sandwich technique, i would tell you to off , stop wasting my time and say what you have to say.
UNless we are making love. Then you say nice things. |
I don't have to know you personally at all man but my analysis of your two or more years over here give me tons of info sbout what kind of person you are. On top of that, I don't give a crap if you going to like me or not lol (man, you still have so much to learn) this is not what life is about, sure we need to have friend around but I rather to have friend which will tell me the truth, then the ones who will always make me feel good/complement me and lie to me at the same time --> you will learn this over next few years and you can take this advice or not, don't care, do whatever you want to do with it, it is your life.
Cheers the "One" dude,
Darek |
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