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What is the status of current label situation on the music market? (pg. 17)
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| Storyteller |
| I was only hoping we aren't thinking of the same. I've just started writing a businessplan for a music-based business concept. I'm glad to see we're not. Which means I can still be the first with what I want to do ;p |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
I was only hoping we aren't thinking of the same. I've just started writing a businessplan for a music-based business concept. I'm glad to see we're not. Which means I can still be the first with what I want to do ;p |
Damn it, what is you business plan man????, tell me :D lol lol lol - now worry, whatever your plan is, I wish you all the best with it!!!
But I do have question for you all TA - from your guys perspective (amateur, semi-professional or professional producers), what is the most important thing/goal for you --> sign with some big label or sell you product on the market, be recognize/known and make decent living/money from your production - where would you like to be???
More opinions is better for me and you guys (in the future ;))
Cheers,
Darek |
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| DJ RANN |
(Sorry in advance for the W*ASHL3Y wall of text but hopefully it will be worth the read)
me, I wish people in this thread would stop posting fallacies or at least STFU on subjects they know nothing about.
Firstly, server space has never been cheaper. Bear in mind facebook was started with the most entry level Network Solutions package and then hosted on a single server with a dedicated bog standard residential broadband internet subscription for the 1st year (and they had 10's of thousands of users before expanding). and that was 2004.
Secondly, on the subject of making money from streams; you're a ing idiot for allowing it as an artist. Unless you want your main revenue stream to be PA's/gigs, you might as well give it away for free. I will never use spotify for this very reason. Theses deals were done by record companies on their last legs desperately trying to figure out what the next big thing will be and ing their artists in the process in an attempt to leverage other forms of media and revenue streams.
Thirdly, the biggest problem here is perception of the music industry and the money involved, and sadly it's what L4C's getting at; The really talented or incredibly well marketed people make money and the rest will struggle to make ends meet if they make anything at all. Why do I say perception then? Because people think due to the flashy wealth of a few who do well, that the streets are lined with gold in a particular industry for all that walk the path, but it's not actually like that by any stretch. In most industries/markets, you'll only scratch a living while working a lot of hours, unless you're at the top of it or your game.
Even back in the old days of EDM, sure you could make money from tracks but let's not paint some romanticised and historically adjusted picture of it; You could make a couple of grand from a remix (lump sum) or sell a few thousand vinyl netting you another couple of grand. Sure you could live off it but not enough to retire on. The ones who did well were smart businessmen and ran labels to make money off others as their own streams weren't enough.
Back then, a few (and I mean a couple of dozen) select producers and DJ's across the plant made good money. The rest didn't so please people, stop thinking somehow it's massively changed. Bear in mind good meny for a major name DJ was $3k an hour (that was sasha's rate in the 90's for a big club). Now all the big names command $100k+ for a big gig. If anything, there's more money in EDM than there's ever been - it's a matter of perspective and I can't stand the whining about the collapse of finances in EDM. All that's happened is that it used to be that anyone who put out something "decent" would see a small return. Now "decent" doesn't cut it to make money.
Another thing, some industries/positions just don't pay well, music being one of them and I'll give you a direct example: I was lucky enough to work regularly with arguably one of the top 3 mix engineers in the world. This guy's resume is enough to make you yourself, and it reads more like a list of cultural milestones in most forms of media. He works with only the top artists, in the best studios on earth.
He makes....wait for it.......$350k a year, maybe $500k with residuals if he's lucky. May sound like a a lot to some you. now factor in that he is in the top 0.0001% of his field and is basically a living legend in his industry.
Think of any other industry where you are one of THE top 3 people on this planet and make as little as that. You can't.
Top 3 doctor - you're probably on $5-10mil a year.
Top 3 Architect - Probably $20mil a year.
Top 3 Graphic designer - $5mil a year.
Top 3 Hairdresser - $2-3Mil a year
Top 3 Chef $1-2mil
Top 3 photographer $3-5mil
, even if you were one of the top 3 prostitutes in the world, you'd make a few million a year.
I could go on but you get the point - some industries don't pay well even when you are the pinnacle, and some industries, like producing EDM now, don't pay well unless you are at the very top (and then it does pay well).
This is the reality based on CURRENT business models, and what we have to do (or the lucky few who figure it out) is how to create a new model that taps in to the all that money involved in EDM right now.
There is more money than ever in EDM; it's become completely acceptable to the masses to hear EDM in a local bar of club, in film soundtrack, on match of the day, at an event, at a wedding, on the radio...it's being consumed like never before and that means money from licensing, gigs, merchandise, endorsements, and of course, production itself.
The trick is to figure out the business model - back in 2005, you could start a business and wealth was so abundant that all you had to do was open your doors, sell a mediocre product or service and you'd make money. All those people lost their shirt in 2008-2009.
Business owners who started their businesses in 2008-2009 (assuming they survived the next year) are the ones who REALLY know their business model and are slowly prospering now, and as the economy picks up will be the ones who thrive.
The same can be said for music industry - the ones who haven't or can't adapt to the new reality will die off, and this is exactly what is happening to the big major labels.
If I can leave this post with one thought, it is that there is a massive opportunity right now, like never before - the old industry leaders are passing on, yet there's more interest and money in our little industry than ever, at least for those who can find the way to tap in to it. |
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| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Firstly, server space has never been cheaper. Bear in mind facebook was started with the most entry level Network Solutions package and then hosted on a single server with a dedicated bog standard residential broadband internet subscription for the 1st year (and they had 10's of thousands of users before expanding). and that was 2004.
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It's not the storage space where costs start to mount up, it's the bandwidth that's required for mass sales (potentially hundreds to thousands of multi megabyte downloads).
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Even back in the old days of EDM, sure you could make money from tracks but let's not paint some romanticised and historically adjusted picture of it; You could make a couple of grand from a remix (lump sum) or sell a few thousand vinyl netting you another couple of grand. Sure you could live off it but not enough to retire on. The ones who did well were smart businessmen and ran labels to make money off others as their own streams weren't enough.
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Been there, done that. I used to 'release' white labels with another couple of dudes back in the early 90s and £1500-2000 a weekend was easily achievable if we'd made a track that week. They weren't particularly great either if truth be told, we just had the knowledge, gear (ahhhhh ADAT) and musical ability to throw a dance track together. :p That was all DJ market though back when you could be almost guaranteed to actually sell a few hundred copies of vinyl at a fiver a pop. Never went any further than that though, and we never expected it to. |
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| Storyteller |
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
It's not the storage space where costs start to mount up, it's the bandwidth that's required for mass sales (potentially hundreds to thousands of multi megabyte downloads). |
This. Costs quickly add up depending on scale. But to put things in perspective i can facilitate 25000 full track downloads as 320kbps mp3 for less than 25euro a month. It is cheap but imagine a youtube or a itunes... |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
This. Costs quickly add up depending on scale. But to put things in perspective i can facilitate 25000 full track downloads as 320kbps mp3 for less than 25euro a month. It is cheap but imagine a youtube or a itunes... |
Yeah, for about $150.00 I can get close to T1 speed, it is not that expensive and yes we are talking about future with thousands of downloads per day lol (I hope so), this is why I need to have scalable options from the beginning open to me.
Cheers,
Darek |
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| DJ RANN |
Server space and bandwidth is not the issue to be worried about.
The costs is an absolute pittance compared to what your revenue is at any stage of the project, and even if the costs for bandwidth increase as you need more, so does your revenue, and by a far greater amount.
Yes, you have to make it scalable but when you're at the point where you need the kind of space/bandwidth that the big sites have you're already a multinational corporation with the funds to outsource it.
You can get a full uncapped T1 here in the usa for $200 per month which will be more than enough for a startup, until you actually require more than that due to sheer numbers of hits in which case you just upgrade.
What you said Geoff is what I'm getting at in my larger post; the model used to be a smallish number people making OK money on small releases, whereas now, it's thousands of people making music, getting all in return, with exception of a few people doing very well from the increased market size. |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Server space and bandwidth is not the issue to be worried about.
The costs is an absolute pittance compared to what your revenue is at any stage of the project, and even if the costs for bandwidth increase as you need more, so does your revenue, and by a far greater amount.
Yes, you have to make it scalable but when you're at the point where you need the kind of space/bandwidth that the big sites have you're already a multinational corporation with the funds to outsource it.
You can get a full uncapped T1 here in the usa for $200 per month which will be more than enough for a startup, until you actually require more than that due to sheer numbers of hits in which case you just upgrade.
What you said Geoff is what I'm getting at in my larger post; the model used to be a smallish number people making OK money on small releases, whereas now, it's thousands of people making music, getting all in return, with exception of a few people doing very well from the increased market size. |
Damn it man, I thought that you not gonna share my idea on this board lol :D
Yeah, I don't what to go into a details but this is seriously visible and not that complicated to do (oh maybe this legal site lol) --> good point RANN and I think if you really want you can make a lot of sense man, nice to hear that!
Let me just refresh my question as this will be very important info on the direction for this concept:
what is the most important thing/goal for you --> sign with some big label or sell you product on the market, be recognize/known and make decent living/money from your production - where would you like to be???
Cheers guys,
Darek |
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| tehlord |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
Server space and bandwidth is not the issue to be worried about.
The costs is an absolute pittance compared to what your revenue is at any stage of the project, and even if the costs for bandwidth increase as you need more, so does your revenue, and by a far greater amount.
Yes, you have to make it scalable but when you're at the point where you need the kind of space/bandwidth that the big sites have you're already a multinational corporation with the funds to outsource it.
You can get a full uncapped T1 here in the usa for $200 per month which will be more than enough for a startup, until you actually require more than that due to sheer numbers of hits in which case you just upgrade.
What you said Geoff is what I'm getting at in my larger post; the model used to be a smallish number people making OK money on small releases, whereas now, it's thousands of people making music, getting all in return, with exception of a few people doing very well from the increased market size. |
I suppose in terms of a scaled cost based on your current revenue it's a comparatively small cost, although my research still lead to it being more expensive than you're suggesting. You probably know more about this than I do though.
For what it's worth, I have a fully functioning labelworx account that'll give access to all the stores (including iTunes and Spotify etc) should you guys give me a reason to find something useful to do with it. Not that it's too hard to get an account of your own if you can show a lineup, but mines already there and active. |
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| tehlord |
| It's also worth noting that the income generated by sales in the early 90s required about £30k worth of equipment (and that was still a relatively average home setup!) and an accumulated 30-40 years of experience between 3 producers. Not the same as a dude with a T-shirt, set of Beats and a cracked copy of Live wondering why he's not a millionaire dripping in puntang yet. |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by tehlord
For what it's worth, I have a fully functioning labelworx account that'll give access to all the stores (including iTunes and Spotify etc) should you guys give me a reason to find something useful to do with it. Not that it's too hard to get an account of your own if you can show a lineup, but mines already there and active. |
It didn't work out for you G, any problems with this standard scenario, label to beatport setup, what was your personal experience?
Cheers |
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| Chronosis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
I've just started writing a businessplan for a music-based business concept. |
I guess that makes 3 of us ;) |
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