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What is the status of current label situation on the music market? (pg. 18)
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chronosis
I guess that makes 3 of us ;) |
Lol, a lot of competition even before I started it lol.
Cheers,
Darek |
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| Storyteller |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
What you said Geoff is what I'm getting at in my larger post; the model used to be a smallish number people making OK money on small releases, whereas now, it's thousands of people making music, getting all in return, with exception of a few people doing very well from the increased market size. |
I agree. That's how online works. The best and/or cheapest will conquer all and leave virtually no room for other businesses to breathe. Market shares are divided differently online as in real life as well. Online is way more competitive than offline bussiness. Either provide a better product for the consumers or a cheaper one. Otherwise you have about 0 chance to stay afloat.
The problem is that better implies a large scale (bigger library) and cheaper either implies scale to be more cost effective or a smaller profit margin and smaller scale in order to stay sustainable. Either way starting out is hard and expensive.
I'm really hoping trancelover isn't about the try and launch webshop since that is destined fail without a huge investment. Unless he's solved the cost vs scale vs income equation that is.
In absolute terms (assuming a startup company):
No scale = little to offer consumers
Low cost = no scale
Little to offer consumers = low income
Reflecting back to the original subject, this is the same problem why many labels won't sell more than a 100 copies. They have no scale - no significant business model or size to generate plenty of customers, they keep it low cost because they are not willing to invest to stimulate sales and thus generate no income. It's a downward spiral pretty much any business will fall into and without a proper initial investment and you can never get out. Unless you tip the cost vs scale vs income scale in your favour.
I'm guessing trancelover wants some sort of webshop. He'd need scale to have a relevant library in order to attract consumers. Scale pretty much acts as a multiplier. Keeping something low cost and big scale equals lots of income. High cost and low scale equals loss. Low cost and low scale usually results into a manageable loss. Mediocre scale and cost could be enough to profit if done well.
Best tip I can give: find out who your audience is and what would (read should) attract them. Apply that knowledge to the scale of business needed. Calculate costs and try to get most out of as little money as possible. Define critical mass - how many customers would you need to break even. Also define how much time you would need to get there. If you can define those values and make them dependable due to proper research you will have a seemingly solid businessplan and might have a chance.
Or (even better), think out of the box and try to eliminate or compensate cost or scale from the equation and come up with a new businessmodel. You can do this by tapping into additional/alternative revenue generating resources or make the concept profitable (or cost effective) enough at very low scale and flexible enough to grow over time to get to that critical mass.
Layman's conclusion: pffff, business is hard to start ;)
There's so many ways to go about with this. But if you're confident in your plan, the sky is indeed the limit. Typing on the Ipad remains though. This post literally took me about an hour. |
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| Storyteller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chronosis
I guess that makes 3 of us ;) |
Interesting to see how things will unfold :). Too bad nobody wants to share ideas too much. That's how it works I'm afraid. I'm so glad that I haven't seen my concept anywhere just yet and I've been walking aroudn with my idea for over 2 years already. Either it's not viable or genuinely unique ;). Time will tell. I'm glad its a graduation project for university (that's why I haven't done anythign with it for so long, as they directly told me the idea is graduation material). I will abuse the fact that I can still tap into a lot of knowledge there on marketing, communications and financing.
Fingers crossed :) |
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| Chronosis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
I will abuse the fact that I can still tap into a lot of knowledge there on marketing, communications and financing.
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Ah! I was about to ask if you've had any business education. You mentioned a lot of familiar concepts in your previous post. ;)
Also, you guys might want to check out if there are online business seminars in your area. Where I live, there have been at least 3 within the last 4-5 months. |
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| Storyteller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Chronosis
Ah! I was about to ask if you've had any business education. You mentioned a lot of familiar concepts in your previous post. ;)
Also, you guys might want to check out if there are online business seminars in your area. Where I live, there have been at least 3 within the last 4-5 months. |
Tehcnically I don't. I'm doing an Art & Technology type of education. They're pretty fond of students that display entrepeneurship though and stimulate it as much as possible. They help me acquire the knowledge I seek on many aspects. Mostly on online business, marketing, branding and communication. I feel most of the knowledge I have comes from practice. I'm an independent webdeveloper and also work for a publisher that publishes a free underground music magazine, supports independent professionals and creates/manages creative marketing concepts for some of the bigger brands around. So I guess I've picked up most of what I know from the field as much as university. |
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| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
Layman's conclusion: pffff, business is hard to start ;)
There's so many ways to go about with this. But if you're confident in your plan, the sky is indeed the limit.
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I've run my own high street business for some years and I never had a business plan, but I always knew exactly what I had to do each day to generate the required profit.
Business plans have some use in getting you to visualise everything in one mental picture, but they are really quite limited in terms of thier practicality.
In the end it will come down to 'suck it n see'.
When it comes to music, most of us won't make a dent, mainly due to talent (or lack of), but also just sheer probability. When you have 10m wannabees on SC alone, it's easy to get a sense of the overwhelming odds involved.
99% of painters don't 'make it'. There is no reason to expect music to be materialy different.
Having said all this, personally I'm always fired by the sense we might get lucky (although L4C will quickly point out my misplaced hope:crazy: - can't wait for his ,masterpiece to show me where I'm going wrong). |
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| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ RANN
and some industries, like producing EDM now, don't pay well unless you are at the very top (and then it does pay well).
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Very lucid post Rann.
I've been saying again and again that it's the same with many different sectors, for example writing books, where only a tiny minority strike gold. The head of Goldsmiths art college in London said only 1 or 2% of his graduates go on to make meaningful money out of painting and sculpture.
Same with acting, dancing and any other creative field. If you aint't selling you probably aren't giving the public something they want.
There's an old Turkish seaside town called Kalcan which has about 60 restaurants. Some of the owners are gloomy and say life ain't fair. Others are booming. The ONLY difference between them is in the ownners understanding of what customers want. So many people only want to deliver 60% of a service and then moan they attract no customers.
This thing about 'great artists going unnoticed' is something we hear from all artistic scenes. People imply it isn't fair. Utter nonsense, it's perfectly fair, and just the way it is. No one is entitled to a thing.
Sure 'that band' you know from down the pub are tallented, and sure the singer is great, but in the end no different to a million other buskers on the subway. Do they really bring anything new and different? Most don't.
We might know a very tallented pianist, but really he delivers the very same fayre that a thousand predecesors delivered. Unless he's truly outstanding he wont make a dime, just as only the very best magicians make the big time.
I've got to be honest and say I find J00F to be one of these idealists. I read his rants and cry out in support, then I go listen to this 'special' music he's on about and find it's nothing at all new or differnet, just another portion of the same.
I myself struggle immensely to be original, it's a battle I may never win, but I never feel this sense of injustice or unfariness that others ellude to. If I suck, I deserve no more than crumbs. |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Richard Butler
Very lucid post Rann.
I've been saying again and again that it's the same with many different sectors, for example writing books, where only a tiny minority strike gold. The head of Goldsmiths art college in London said only 1 or 2% of his graduates go on to make meaningful money out of painting and sculpture.
Same with acting, dancing and any other creative field. If you aint't selling you probably aren't giving the public something they want.
There's an old Turkish seaside town called Kalcan which has about 60 restaurants. Some of the owners are gloomy and say life ain't fair. Others are booming. The ONLY difference between them is in the ownners understanding of what customers want. So many people only want to deliver 60% of a service and then moan they attract no customers.
This thing about 'great artists going unnoticed' is something we hear from all artistic scenes. People imply it isn't fair. Utter nonsense, it's perfectly fair, and just the way it is. No one is entitled to a thing.
Sure 'that band' you know from down the pub are tallented, and sure the singer is great, but in the end no different to a million other buskers on the subway. Do they really bring anything new and different? Most don't.
We might know a very tallented pianist, but really he delivers the very same fayre that a thousand predecesors delivered. Unless he's truly outstanding he wont make a dime, just as only the very best magicians make the big time.
I've got to be honest and say I find J00F to be one of these idealists. I read his rants and cry out in support, then I go listen to this 'special' music he's on about and find it's nothing at all new or differnet, just another portion of the same.
I myself struggle immensely to be original, it's a battle I may never win, but I never feel this sense of injustice or unfariness that others ellude to. If I suck, I deserve no more than crumbs. |
Yeah, I can hear you Richard but still don’t understand why you want to give up you dream and follow this 99% philosophy (which makes you irrelevant musically speaking) and doesn’t give you any chance to become the “one” who you want to be in the future (at least in your own eyes) my friend.
A lot of people are talking about the same thing but nothing and nobody is willing to do anything about this so far, why??????
My view is that everyone have the equal chance to become the “one” and the market will determinate the faith of the “one”, no some powerful industry who is looking for new idol for us and ways of cashing in big $ from us lol.
I would like to see true competition, fair chance for every producer, fair play level, fair game and people/listeners will choose who will be the best from all of us, but the rest still can take fair share of the market. One day, even the only good producers will be able to make living from producing the kind of music they love not the kind they have to in order to impress some kind of studio/label. I would like to see all of producer being able to sale the product (and make a fair $ for their work) and only the quality of their product will determinate who will be making more money than the other one.
Is this too much to ask????
Remember, technology is our friend in this case!!!
Darek |
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| Storyteller |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceLover007
I would like to see true competition. |
This. Fair is too broad and generic for me. I'd just like to see some competition unlike nowadays where everybody signs all over the place. A place where artists and labels build a future together. I'd love to see a new place that provides artists the audience and launchpad they need to get into the big leagues. |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Storyteller
This. Fair is too broad and generic for me. I'd just like to see some competition unlike nowadays where everybody signs all over the place. A place where artists and labels build a future together. I'd love to see a new place that provides artists the audience and launchpad they need to get into the big leagues. |
Close but may not be close enough for me to really feel comfortable with you plan/idea (how can I say that without knowing you concept lol, I may be wrong man) - for me the most important thing is that every (and I'm talking about serious, good, talented and dedicated one with thru love to the music) artist/producer can make this fair share of the market (what ever that will/would be 60%~70% of the sell) and not starve to death (just because is only making 10%~20% of the total sell).
In may case, even local support (let say 1000 to 2000 people) will make him make enough money to continue his profession/hobby or maybe a dream and one day he will/may come up with the "one" track/song which become instant hit lol - Why not????
Cheers,
Darek |
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| Richard Butler |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceLover007
Yeah, I can hear you Richard but still don’t understand why you want to give up you dream and follow this 99% philosophy (which makes you irrelevant musically speaking) and doesn’t give you any chance to become the “one” who you want to be in the future (at least in your own eyes) my friend.
A lot of people are talking about the same thing but nothing and nobody is willing to do anything about this so far, why??????
My view is that everyone have the equal chance to become the “one” and the market will determinate the faith of the “one”, no some powerful industry who is looking for new idol for us and ways of cashing in big $ from us lol.
I would like to see true competition, fair chance for every producer, fair play level, fair game and people/listeners will choose who will be the best from all of us, but the rest still can take fair share of the market. One day, even the only good producers will be able to make living from producing the kind of music they love not the kind they have to in order to impress some kind of studio/label. I would like to see all of producer being able to sale the product (and make a fair $ for their work) and only the quality of their product will determinate who will be making more money than the other one.
Is this too much to ask????
Remember, technology is our friend in this case!!!
Darek |
Darek I think I agree with you, and there's no reason you shouldn't go for it. Just because something is tough is no reason not to follow your dream. Everyone told me it was a bad idea to buy a shop but I did it and it turned out well. People always find reasons not to do stuff. The world would remain static if no one got in a boat and sailed over the horizon.
All I'm saying is it's always going to be the case only a few in any artistic realm will become sucessful - the public can only take so much in, just as you and I can only take notice of a few actors, a few painters, a few authors.
I'm always optimistic in my will, perhaps pessimistic in my intellect. |
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| TranceLover007 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Richard Butler
Darek I think I agree with you, and there's no reason you shouldn't go for it. Just because something is tough is no reason not to follow your dream. Everyone told me it was a bad idea to buy a shop but I did it and it turned out well. People always find reasons not to do stuff. The world would remain static if no one got in a boat and sailed over the horizon.
All I'm saying is it's always going to be the case only a few in any artistic realm will become sucessful - the public can only take so much in, just as you and I can only take notice of a few actors, a few painters, a few authors.
I'm always optimistic in my will, perhaps pessimistic in my intellect. |
Good point man, I can see where you are coming from.
Look. let say you have car trouble on the road and you call who??? -> in US we have AAA (if you member) and ask them to come and help you but you have no idea if this guy who will come is the best to do this job or just another average Jo Doe???, but as long as he has got you fixed you are happy with that.
The same sort of idea is behind "the new thing" - as long as they come to this one place and can/will find you, listen to your production and are happy perfectly from what they hear, the may/will buy your track + the fact that they directly support producer, should/will make big difference in their decision to buy your track from this particular place and not from any other - that's the intend!!!
Remember there is millions people with different taste in music, they may like things I don't and they should be able to find what they are looking for and I don't want to be that one person or label or distributor who will tell them that what they looking for is not good for them and offer something different which they believe is or should be much more pleasing for them lol – no. don’t want that, it is all about free choice !!!!
Fair Game!!!!
Darek |
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