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Do you think soldiers are heroes or just byproducts of the system? (pg. 2)
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| srussell0018 |
@orangesto
I disagree with that almost entirely. You're drastically underestimating the number of people who join because they care about their country and want to fight for it (probably the ones who called you a coward for deserting). And it's not just the impoverished or people who don't know any better. Take Pat Tillman for example. He gave up a promising career in the NFL to fight (and die) for his country. He felt it was his duty as an American citizen.
Sure, a lot of them are southern yokels who don't know any better, but I think you're over-emphasizing the brainwashing aspect of it. I know quite a few people who have served in the Army and Marines, and none of them are stupid. They all went to my Uni either during or after their various stints in the services. They didn't do it because they had nothing else, they did it because they wanted to. One of them has been out a couple years now and is thinking of re-enlisting, even though he's making a very decent salary on the outside.
You seem to have a negative view of this, and it's apparent that your opinion is fairly biased. I mean you snaked your way into leaving your commitment to the services, so obviously you have a very strong objection to a big part of it. |
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| enydo |
| quote: | Originally posted by OrangestO
And yet a lot of soldiers lean on that crutch in the civilian world. It's very tiring. |
Probably because a lot of them come home and are like, "oh wow, I'm totally ed and nobody cares". It makes sense they would reach out to their fellow Americans for sympathy when our politicians so obviously don't give two flying s about our solders' well-being. |
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| OrangestO |
| I think even less of a person who's supposedly educated and enlightened that enlists in the military to go fight for a war like Iraq than a person who's just doing it to escape poverty. I would think the former would know a bit better, IMO. |
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| srussell0018 |
| Nobody is being sent to Iraq, and he served 2 tours in Afghanistan. You clearly don't understand why some people enlist. You did for the wrong reasons, which not everybody does. Just because you think they'd "know better" (whatever that means), doesn't mean that they feel anything like you do at all. |
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| enydo |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
Sure, a lot of them are southern yokels who don't know any better, but I think you're over-emphasizing the brainwashing aspect of it. |
WHAT DOES IT MEEANNN? |
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| zGoogleman |
| Maybe that enlightened individual studied a liberal arts degree and couldn't find anything else to support himself? |
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| srussell0018 |
| He majored in Math with minors in Business and Finance. He's making close to 6 figures right now. It has nothing to do with not having options. |
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| OrangestO |
| quote: | Originally posted by enydo
Probably because a lot of them come home and are like, "oh wow, I'm totally ed and nobody cares". It makes sense they would reach out to their fellow Americans for sympathy when our politicians so obviously don't give two flying s about our solders' well-being. |
Fellow Americans?
Fellow Americans don't give a .
They do when it's Memorial Day... and then they forget to care all over again.
Back to regular scheduled programming: BBQ and beers.
The people who care most - from my own experience - tend to be veterans who have found a way to break through the barriers that many of us face when leaving the service and found a way to help. I met two other veterans who were in the journalism program who shared in my viewpoints and were going to use this new outlet to help their fellow comrades. Not by calling them heroes, but by shining the spotlight on the problems and issues regarding their return home and the military itself. Then again, I met a few veterans in school who were so ing brainwashed by their service that they just couldn't let go of it and always used it as a talking point no matter what situation they found themselves in.
I guess that's what I meant by, "It's very tiring."
And it's not even their fault. |
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| Bierheld |
I'd think christening someone a hero is a form of dehumanisation, be it a positive one. If the army functioned on such hard to grasp foundations they simply wouldn't have this many applicants. Whether you joined out of self-interest, self-preservation, self-betterment, solidarity, ideology; As motivations go they're all as quintessentially human as it gets. Not to say they aren't admirable of course.
You could very well act out heroic deeds whilst in service, although I'm guessing most do not, because heroism would not be something that comes from the heart but rather from an unusual mind. You'd have to risk you're own life and limb for something that's solely for the greater good and of zero interest to yourself. That just doesn't happen at all really, it's a mythical term. That's why I don't like dehumanization, regardless of whether it's positive (soldiers are heroes) or negative (criminals are evil). We should really judge people at how good they are at being a human, rather then if they surpass it. You see the same mentality when it comes to celebrities and royalty, who are given big influence without them necessarily being admirable or worthy of radiating such influence. People will want to be more like them rather then being a better self after all. Ant that's not even factoring in the power of PR, which sort of ruins the idea in itself as it shows the process can so easily be manipulated. |
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| srussell0018 |
| quote: | Originally posted by OrangestO
Fellow Americans?
Fellow Americans don't give a .
They do when it's Memorial Day... and then they forget to care all over again.
Back to regular scheduled programming: BBQ and beers.
The people who care most - from my own experience - tend to be veterans who have found a way to break through the barriers that many of us face when leaving the service and found a way to help. I met two other veterans who were in the journalism program who shared in my viewpoints and were going to use this new outlet to help their fellow comrades. Not by calling them heroes, but by shining the spotlight on the problems and issues regarding their return home and the military itself. Then again, I met a few veterans in school who were so ing brainwashed by their service that they just couldn't let go of it and always used it as a talking point no matter what situation they found themselves in.
I guess that's what I meant by, "It's very tiring."
And it's not even their fault. |
Really? You've never seen someone thank anyone they see in uniform for their service? You don't see the yellow ribbons all over cars? You don't see anyone who has served being honored at professional sports games?
You're seriously biased on this. I don't think you're capable of making an objective argument. |
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| enydo |
| quote: | Originally posted by OrangestO
Fellow Americans?
Fellow Americans don't give a .
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Well then literally nobody cares, except as you said: veterans. Have fun whining into a void about the decisions you've made. |
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| OrangestO |
| quote: | Originally posted by srussell0018
Really? You've never seen someone thank anyone they see in uniform for their service? You don't see the yellow ribbons all over cars? You don't see anyone who has served being honored at professional sports games?
You're seriously biased on this. I don't think you're capable of making an objective argument. |
LOL!
Oh yea, because that's real help and appreciation :rolleyes: |
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