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Do you think soldiers are heroes or just byproducts of the system? (pg. 4)
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| wienerschnitzel |
| I wish Zewad still posted... i would be interested in what he has to say. He's currently in Kuwait. He's educated and a cool guy and he's been serving in the army since 2003. |
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| wienerschnitzel |
Soldiers are not heros? do you subscribe to this?! seriously, you can't paint them all with the same brush. That's ing dumb. |
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| OrangestO |
I said it's stupid because of the comments and conversations I was reading between both sides stating their cases on that page. Just a lot of emotionally driven replies. So no, I don't subscribe to that particular page.
There's other ways of tactfully going about making a page like that than how those people have done, even though there is some interesting stuff on there.
I've said my piece on the matter as much as I can without someone maybe from the military coming on here and discussing it with me, because otherwise it's pissing in the wind with people who never served and don't know about the culture.
I'm still curious about whether people think they're heroes or not, though. And maybe stating a reason as to why or why not.
There have been a couple good replies on here. My bad for sidetracking the thread into my own personal story. |
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| DJ RANN |
I'm sorry but I've read a lot of bull in this thread.
Sure, some people do sign up in a patriotic sense of honor for their country and in the same vein, some sign up as a patriotic family traditon, but it's actually a conservative myth that they make up anything close to the majority - The DOD's own figures dispute this (although they are purposely vague in their descriptions so as not to offend or give the real sorry state of affairs).
The vast majority are escaping poverty, or a gang, or simply looking for a way out of ty life that will go no where.
Another larg recruiter is the US court system; I cannot tell you how many vets I've met here in California who were given a choice by a judge of Jail or Enlist.
Finally the one that has seen the biggest increase in the last decade is the promise of citizenship.
If you were to go by the recruitment methods, it's difficult to conclude all soldiers are heroes - it's more a case of circumstance and living condition pressure. That doesn't mean they can't be, just that enlisting does not a hero make. |
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| wienerschnitzel |
| Even if a majority of those people enlist under unfavorable circumstances, doesn't mean they are incapable of heroic acts. If a criminal enlisted to avoid jail time, gets sent overseas and then helps detonate landmines etc i still see that as being heroic. |
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| OrangestO |
| I consider someone in the National Guard helping out victims of the Oklahoma tornadoes more of a hero than anyone who went to Iraq. |
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| wienerschnitzel |
| I guess that makes Yohan an idiot for serving in Afghanistan? |
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| acillarr |
| quote: | Originally posted by OrangestO
I was in the military. I joined because I needed three hots, a cot and a steady paycheck.
The majority of people I served with were in a similar position, joining to escape poverty or looking for an opportunity to excel at something because they couldn't make it on the outside – whether that's because they didn't care to do more or had limited means in trying.
I think soldiers who serve in other countries, where they are drafted and aren't given benefits for their service, can be considered heroes. But in the States, not so much. And yet I have a few veterans on my Facebook who constantly bombard my timeline with how much they mean to this country, how great of a hero they are, and blah blah blah. Get over it, man. You're out of the military, move the on.
I think veterans should definitely receive help and perks for their service after transitioning back into the civilian world, which isn't happening as much as it should, but if some of these guys can't let go of their past and - as they would say in the military - drive on.
IMHO, this "hero" word just gets thrown around so much that it's lost all meaning and context of what a hero really is. People call soldiers heroes, but then when they come back they get the shaft. Many are homeless, uncared for, and left behind. Is this how you treat your so-called heroes? Many of these "heroes" have no other choice but to join the military because of the environments they come from, circumstances they're born into, and lives they lead. They turn to the military for a way to escape and, no doubt about it, the plethora of benefits and advantages the governments uses to lure people into joining.
I just co-authored a book that is in production addressing the issue of veterans who leave the military and have trouble transitioning to civilian life (a self-help manual). And yes, I'm a veteran myself. So excuse me if you disagree with my stance, but I do have a vested interest in this topic even though I may have an unpopular opinion about this specific matter.
I'm curious about other people's opinions about this. |
Military is a symptom of a f***** up world. Lifes not perfect, military is just a socialist entity. I'm libertarian so I think everyone should be prepared to defend themselves and those who are helpless to do so. Military is an institution with lots of propaganda and indoctrinated beliefs behind it. The world is too big and complex to say people killing other people to maybe save other peoples lives are heros. I'm sure some are heros to some people and all will be heros to an even smaller group as long as they are pushing their plan.
Militancy is only one problem with the world but it ain't going anywhere any time soon as long as the world stays on the track it is.
There are too many unknowns. I'm not asking to be saved so no one is my hero.
Its a very complex issue, I think defence is one thing bombing third world countries and countries half way around the world is another issue.
No clue the root cause none the less thats what happened can't change that now. People have their own reasons. I do find it disturbing people are willing to maim and murder people for food and place to sleep though that is pretty sad but hell we don't live the same life.
It is one thing that I find really disturbing that person who is pulling the trigger cause they agreed to in the contract, not because they know the person is a risk and danger to others well being.
That was one thing I was never sure of, I've always been defensively minded, wars happen for the damndest reasons sometimes people don't even really get it. I like making my own decisions based on reason. Sad thing is too much information in the world to know at the level you need to these days, but that is just another symptom of a world that doesn't provide for peace of mind.
I find that a really disturbing thought, but the world is that way. |
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| Floorfiller |
To answer the original thread topic, No I don't think enlistment automatically makes you a hero and yes they are byproducts of the system. I agree that society throws that word around a lot which waters it down to mean nothing.
I'm not really a fan of the military personally, I think it's a broken system. I agree with a lot of the stuff that you guys have been saying.
In my experience people that join the military go in one person and come out someone else. i don't think it's due to the shock of war or something (although i'm sure that does happen) i think it's more to do with the conditioning and mental attack on people that is required in order to make someone feel indestructible.
i'll just leave it at that. |
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| OrangestO |
| quote: | Originally posted by wienerschnitzel
I guess that makes Yohan an idiot for serving in Afghanistan? |
Where in any of my posts did I call soldiers idiots?
This is about the word "hero" and its current connotations. |
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| wienerschnitzel |
| lol you didn't... but i just got the impression that you think anyone who's served in the middle east is retarded. I do agree with several points that were made as well, don't get me wrong, i'm not saying the military, american/canadian is flawless. |
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