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Girl Dies at after hours nightclub (pg. 11)
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by DigiNut
I may be way off base here, but I remember reading somewhere that the same mechanism MDMA has for making the receptors in your brain absorb serotonin can also make them absorb dopamines, which are dangerous if absorbed. Normally dopamines are present only in a small concentration, but alcohol facilitates the release of dopamines and hence gets in there with the serotonin. So not only does it lessen the happy effects of MDMA, but can damage your brain in the same way. |
Dood - that doesn't make sense. You're not going to absorb dopamine through a seratonin receptor - they just don't fit on to each other.
EDIT: That makes sense. I was obviously confused. Good to have PhD's on the board! :) :) |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by rabbitjoker
Dood - that doesn't make sense. You're not going to absorb dopamine through a seratonin receptor - they just don't fit on to each other. |
no actually RJ, that does make sense. there are seratonin transporters not receptors which are basically holes in the neuron to take up seratonin. since dopamine usually has its own transporters it doesn't get taken up by the seratonin transporters but if there is too much of it, some sneaks in. |
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| MattVagrant |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
people always say "drink lots of water" when on a pill, but last time I did that I had major stomach pains and felt like puking. Also, my body temp. was unstable. One minute I was cold, the next I was hot. After that point,I just drink it whenever I feel like I *need* it, and thats what I tell anyone who's doing it for the first time. |
Myself, well, there was a night I'd gone out w/ my friends, and everyone was dosing. I can't remember why I didn't, but I was sober that night. No drugs, no booze, nothing. I was completely well. But, after drinking water all night (for whatever reason), I ended up needing to get out of the car twice on the way home in order to puke my guts out... And it was all water. Not severe or anything, but I was certainly not feeling to well!
Halo20 once had a serious close call w/ too much water intake. But I'll let him tell that story if he chooses (and sees this). |
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| Durafei |
| quote: | Originally posted by MattVagrant
Myself, well, there was a night I'd gone out w/ my friends, and everyone was dosing. I can't remember why I didn't, but I was sober that night. No drugs, no booze, nothing. I was completely well. But, after drinking water all night (for whatever reason), I ended up needing to get out of the car twice on the way home in order to puke my guts out... And it was all water. Not severe or anything, but I was certainly not feeling to well!
Halo20 once had a serious close call w/ too much water intake. But I'll let him tell that story if he chooses (and sees this). |
BTW, it might have been the quality of the water too. Don't forget that we often refill the water from the taps, which can be really really ty. |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
I just wanted to point out about the temperature thing you wrote. The thing with being drunk is that you feel warm but you are actually being cooled at a faster rate because your arteries, capillaries and veins are dilated. that's why drunk people feel hot because the blood is closer to the skin but in reality they lose heat a lot faster. Therefore technically being drunk would let you cool off much faster. And again, they don't know the mechanism of how MDMA raises body temperature and if it does at all. I was just reading a review paper on this and results are varied. Some show an increase ans some even show a decrease. Who knows? In humans studies showed no increase in temperature in a regular setting. Of course everyones temperature is increased at a rammed night at the Guv.
I know that media drives the message home that body temperature is increased but actual studies show other wise with a regular dose of E. Where you run into problems is during MDMA toxic levels. but who really knows what comes first, the increase body heat or other effects of the overdose. |
Hmm, I'm thinking...
I know that alcohol does make you lose heat, but doesn't it also dehydrate you? I mean I think everyone knows that that's what a hangover basically is. You lose heat around the time that you're actually drunk, but a couple of hours later you're just dehydrated, right? So if this girl was drinking a lot - which she probably was, since it said she left right after the last call - then by the time the effects of her pill kicked in, it would have been an hour or two later. Wouldn't this be around the time that the alcohol buzz was starting to wear off, and therefore also the effect of losing body heat?
I'm not talking about alcohol causing dehydration in conjunction with the ecstasy, but rather beforehand... if she was already dehydrated when she took the pill, it would not have been good. But maybe I'm wrong.
As for the MDMA itself, I didn't know that the hyperthermia issue was in dispute. But regardless, would it still make sense to say that in high doses, it can cause that in *some* people, possibly including the girl in question? And if that were the case, even if the alcohol wasn't a contributing factor, giving her a shower and wrapping her in blankets almost certainly didn't help matters.
This is all just speculation obviously, but clearly something happened here that does not normally happen when people take ecstasy. So either she got a different drug or she was just very irresponsible. |
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| ryanm |
I've seen this before. It written very well for those of us who are not science geeks ;) |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Swamper
Good slideshow for any of you who care to understand all the dopamine/seratonin/neuron/etc |
MDMA's primary mechanism of action is by releasing 5-HT and blocking its reuptake (Palfai, Jankiewicz, 2001). It also increases the net release of norepinephrine, and dopamine, and blocks the reuptake of dopamine (Rivas-Vazquez, Delgado, 2002). MDMA stimulates serotonin efflux from plasma membrane vesicles and secretory vesicles (Rudnick, Wall, 1992).
In the plasma membrane vesicles, MDMA inhibits serotonin transport by direct interaction with the sodium dependent transporter. MDMA inhibits ATP-dependent serotonin accumulation and stimulates efflux of previously accumulated serotonin (Rudnick, Wall, 1992). Usually after serotonin is released into the synaptic gap and is used, serotonin transporters move serotonin back into the presynaptic neuron to be metabolized. MDMA prevents the transporters from taking serotonin back into the presynaptic neuron. It can also cause the transporters to work in reverse bringing serotonin into the synaptic gap (NIDA, 2003). |
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| StereoPrincess |
i'm betting she got a different drug.
i mean there is no reason for her to die.
drug safety is very simple to teach to people. aside from all the pharmacological effects and such. every single person doesn't have to understand all the biochemical stuff. because people are just going to get confused and not understand it anyways. the brain is very complicated and usually for one papers saying something there are 3 other staying something else. this i have learned numerous amount of times.
Simple rules apply to everything (E or anything else):
1. Know what you are getting. Make sure you know that the pill was tested and other peoples experiences with the pill. if who ever is selling it does not give you that information then don't buy it. you wouldn't trust a pharmacist if they didn't give you that information.
2. Take in moderation. I know that a lot of people do entire pills. the safest way is to take less then one and see how your body reacts. quarters and halfs are easy to manage. if you are already feeling ill, don't do it, why risk weird reaction with your body already under stess.
3. Drink water and take breaks. If you notice you are covered in sweat then go sit down and drink. Simple. |
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| Durafei |
BTW, check out the new article on the subject:
Here |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by Durafei
BTW, check out the new article on the subject:
Here |
Disgusting.
I guess I better edit that letter before I send it. The media is on this thing like a fat kid on a smartie. |
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