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Formula 1 2005 Thread (pg. 14)
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| drgoodvibe |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
yep its a great lense, very useful to take shots in a city and people.
are you guys staying for the whole weekend? |
yep, from the 10-12th. |
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| TranceGeek |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dark_Archonis
In comparison, BAR Honda has been around for 6 years, and it's an interesting relationship in this case. Most of the car is built by BAR, with Honda I think only supplying the engine, and some transmission parts.
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umm, no, the BAR formula is built solely by Honda.. BAR used to be owned completely by BAT (British American Tobacco) when they started up in '99, but is in the process of being bought out by Honda.. i think Honda has about 55% stake in BAR at the moment...
GO BAR!!!!!!!!! |
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| Dark_Archonis |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
^^
The f2005 was definatly slower than the R25, no doubt about it. All your points were correct, but in the end, i still thought it was the right strategy, because the f2004-ga was too slow, and they wouldnt have got any points anyways. They had to just 'giver er', lol.
In terms of Toyota, this is their fourth season in f1, and i would count it as their fifth with a car. Before their first season, they has 1 entire year of testing. The specifically finished a car 1 year in advance, and just went to Paul Richard to test for a full year!!! Thats no laughing matter. Most teams just finish their car before their debut season, maybe a month or two ahead of time, not a full year. THey had Mika Salo and Allen Mcnish just running lap after lap. Mika Salo had loads of experience, and Allen, well he didnt live up. Toyota also brought in Mike Gascoyin, who is supposed to be one of the best designers on the grid.
I believ Toyota had lots of experience on their side, even if it was all bought. The fact is that BAR/Honda, and Toyota, even took this long to get proper cars under them, is a testimon to the fact that you not only need money, not only experienced staff, you need an experienced car. you need to get a rhythm you need to know what works with YOUR car and what doesnt.
And Toyota finally got a pair of drivers who have the race/testing experience under them, and both drivers know how to win. Very important. Young drivers can get excited and throw it away. |
Toyota may have some experienced people working for them ... but they themselves have only a miniscule amount of experience in F1 compared to Ferrari. Granted, Toyota has lots of motorsports experience in other areas, but they are still very new to F1. Do not forget, Toyota and Ferrari are the only teams that build their own engines and chassis. BAR Honda is a joint venture, as Honda by themselves probably would not be competitive, let alone have the financial capital to build their own chassis and engines.
Yes, I do agree with you, that to be successful in F1, you need to have many elements coming together properly. It's not enough to have lots of money, or to have fancy big name drivers or engineers. This may sound a lot like Toyota, but again it is the whole package in the end that makes everything work. To Toyota's credit, their cars have been running very reliably in the season so far, and I think they have a fair amount of leeway in terms of reliability. I think they can easily up the power and RPM on those Toyota V10's with hardly any consequences. And again, giving credit to Gascoyne, he has made a very nice chassis with great aerodynamics. If Toyota did not have expertise in making reliable racing machines, then they would not have been competitive, even with Gascoyne. This is proof that you truly must work as a team in F1 to get a car to pole. One person cannot carry the whole team. |
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| Dark_Archonis |
| quote: | Originally posted by TranceGeek
umm, no, the BAR formula is built solely by Honda.. BAR used to be owned completely by BAT (British American Tobacco) when they started up in '99, but is in the process of being bought out by Honda.. i think Honda has about 55% stake in BAR at the moment...
GO BAR!!!!!!!!! |
I heard that Honda so far has only bought about a 45% share of the company. Also, you are incorrect. The Bar Honda 007 cars are not solely built by Honda. I have confirmed this, and the chassis and certain other parts are built mostly by BAR, with the engine and certain gearbox internals being built by Honda.
Have a look here:
http://www.seventhgear.com/uk/en/ne...id=1&nid=104277
the chassis is the BAR 007, hence the formula name.
As I said above in my other post, Ferrari and Toyota are the only teams in F1 that build their own chassis and engines.
Anyways, things are lookin very interesting for Imola tomorrow ... there is the possibility of rain, which could make for a very unpredictable race. |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dark_Archonis
I heard that Honda so far has only bought about a 45% share of the company. Also, you are incorrect. The Bar Honda 007 cars are not solely built by Honda. I have confirmed this, and the chassis and certain other parts are built mostly by BAR, with the engine and certain gearbox internals being built by Honda.
Have a look here:
http://www.seventhgear.com/uk/en/ne...id=1&nid=104277
the chassis is the BAR 007, hence the formula name.
As I said above in my other post, Ferrari and Toyota are the only teams in F1 that build their own chassis and engines.
Anyways, things are lookin very interesting for Imola tomorrow ... there is the possibility of rain, which could make for a very unpredictable race. |
Beat me to the punch! Yes, according to Honda's first edition of "Honda: The Magazine" (for Honda Owners, just came out for Summer 2005) there is an interview of Button (pg. 43) where he mentions that Honda increased their ownership of BAR to 45% to the point where the president of Honda Racing Development now has an office at BAR's Brackley, England HQ.
And an example of the link between Honda and BAR sharing the manufacturing:
- Honda built a $40 million wind tunnel for the team
- 7-speed tranny of the team's racing car is cased in carbon that is the product of BAR's expertise in composites, while the internals are all-Honda (also as per the link you provided above)
I still reminesce about the V12 Ferraris and have been a Ferrari fan for a while now (ever since McLaren was kicking their ass in the late 90s) but now I have to say MAD props to Renault for their disgustingly awesome package. Gotta say a piece of me will always love Honda because of my personal investments in that company, but can't say I like BAR too much... |
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| Dark_Archonis |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
Beat me to the punch! Yes, according to Honda's first edition of "Honda: The Magazine" (for Honda Owners, just came out for Summer 2005) there is an interview of Button (pg. 43) where he mentions that Honda increased their ownership of BAR to 45% to the point where the president of Honda Racing Development now has an office at BAR's Brackley, England HQ.
And an example of the link between Honda and BAR sharing the manufacturing:
- Honda built a $40 million wind tunnel for the team
- 7-speed tranny of the team's racing car is cased in carbon that is the product of BAR's expertise in composites, while the internals are all-Honda (also as per the link you provided above)
I still reminesce about the V12 Ferraris and have been a Ferrari fan for a while now (ever since McLaren was kicking their ass in the late 90s) but now I have to say MAD props to Renault for their disgustingly awesome package. Gotta say a piece of me will always love Honda because of my personal investments in that company, but can't say I like BAR too much... |
Well, this is true, the team is obviously linked, and it is a joint venture. I simply corrected TranceGeek on the fact that the chassis is built by BAR, not Honda. Also, systems like steering are built by BAR as well. Many Honda fans unfortunately ignore the facts, and immediately jump on the idea that this team is all Honda. Without BAR, Honda would not be where it is now. Same goes with BAR being without Honda. Thus, it is a joint venture. Something else to keep in mind is that Honda has less racing experience than Toyota, and their experience is limited to only a few types of Motorsports. Toyota on the other hand has much more experience in a variety of motorsports.
EDIT: Next year will definitely be interesting, as all teams will need to develop new engines (2.4L V8) to meet the 2006 engine regulations. |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dark_Archonis
Something else to keep in mind is that Honda has less racing experience than Toyota, and their experience is limited to only a few types of Motorsports. Toyota on the other hand has much more experience in a variety of motorsports. |
One could also argue that Honda is ahead of Toyota in racing due to the way its technology owns the Moto GP...(love how Rossi slapped them in the face with his mad skillz tho!!! LOL!!)...yet Toyota is not even involved in 2-wheels.
| quote: | Originally posted by Dark_Archonis
EDIT: Next year will definitely be interesting, as all teams will need to develop new engines (2.4L V8) to meet the 2006 engine regulations. |
...can't wait... |
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| Dark_Archonis |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
One could also argue that Honda is ahead of Toyota in racing due to the way its technology owns the Moto GP...(love how Rossi slapped them in the face with his mad skillz tho!!! LOL!!)...yet Toyota is not even involved in 2-wheels. |
There isn't much of an argument. Honda always was, and always will be first and foremost, a bike builder. They built bikes before they built cars. Most of their engines follow a bike engine philosophy: high revving, high HP, low torque, small displacement, and loud engines.
Toyota's engines are much much broader, and cover a lot of ground. Toyota too has high revving low torque engines, moving on to smooth, refined V6 engines, and all the way to silky and silent Lexus V8 engines, as well as low RPM, high torque truck (iForce) V8 engines. And of course, Toyota has lots of expertise in diesel engines, and is the world leader in hybrid technology.
Yes, Toyota is not involved in bikes, and they never really were. Toyota is not a bike builder. BUT, Toyota has been involved in Rally racing, having a number of wins, and near legendary history with rally Celicas and Corollas. They're into Baja Racing with their Tundras, as well as the Dakar rally. They're into Nascar ... the ONLY foreign manufacturer in Nascar. The Nascar Tundras are very competitive, and as a slap in the face to the domestics, TRD produced from scratch their own pushrod V8 engine to meet Nascar regulations. Incredibly, even though this is Toyota's first effort at a pushrod engine, it produces the most HP out of ALL the other engines. Not only that, Toyota is in CART, as well as funny car drag racing.
Toyota was involved in Lemans a few years ago, but they left to concentrate on their F1 effort. Honda is only in Lemans in terms of their LM Mugen engine. This powers the Panoz Mugen Car, which is a Panoz chassis. Just like F1, Honda primarily supplies the engines, and their partner makes the chassis. Toyota's short Lemans effort was an all Toyota car, engine and chassis. Same with F1, the cars are all Toyota, in terms of both engine and chassis. |
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| TheVrk |
WOW:eyes: , WHAT a race.....
This is what F1 needs to be about - so much drama
Michael will not go easily |
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| fn_xtc |
| i've said this before and i will say it again...GREAT SEASON! |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by TheVrk
WOW:eyes: , WHAT a race.....
This is what F1 needs to be about - so much drama
Michael will not go easily |
+1
Wow...last laps were AWESOME!!! So happy to see 2 Hondas in the top 5!!!! :) (yeah, yeah, I know...BAR...but I hate that name) |
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| RobbyG. |
| WIKID race:eyespop: ...I think a few more laps & Micheal would have passed Alonso (thank GOD he didn't :tongue2 )...Even seeing Villeneuve finish 6th was proly one of his best finishes in a VERY long time...Anyway a very exciting race & I hope the rest of the season stays that way ;) |
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