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rememberance day (pg. 7)
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| Ania_xox |
All those unacquainted with this day of commemoration should turn to the literature of that time period.
Remarque's All Quiet On The Western Front (or watch the movie)
It's not a war book driven by the politics of war - rather, the fictional story revolves around the lives of a few men who lived through the horrors of the trenches in WWI
The book was banned by the Nazis who attempted to glorify war. Any copy of it found was burned because the story explicitly depicts the actual horror of war. A really good read imo
In Flanders Fields is a beautiful poem.
My favourite of the war poet's is Wilfred Owen
Dulce Et Decorum Est
Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of disappointed shells that dropped behind.
GAS! Gas! Quick, boys!-- An ecstasy of fumbling,
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time;
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And floundering like a man in fire or lime.--
Dim, through the misty panes and thick green light
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.
In all my dreams, before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.
If in some smothering dreams you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,--
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.
(the last line is latin: "it is right and proper to die for your country") |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
ur last argument is completely debatable, the allies were able to succeed in their invasion of france because of the fact that nazi resources were committed to the east. |
You obviously didn't understand my last point. The invasion of France was more or less immaterial to the Soviet victory over the Nazis... that would have happened with or without the Western Allies invading France. You're right, resources were a problem for the Nazis but not due to weather; rather, the key component was supply and transportation problems due to the destruction of production facilities and transportation infrastructure resultant of Allied bombing.
| quote: | | and re: my beloved car and previous generations, again, neither my grandfathers nor any great uncles ever mentioned anything about the war to me when i pressed them for details (because i was really passionate about it when i was studying it) and their children (i.e. my parents and aunts/uncles) confirmed that there was nothing they knew so unless i studied my fam geneology then i wouldn't know. your generic references don't really hit home for me, and i was referring to direct references, urs were obvious :rolleyes: |
Are you suggesting that unless one had a family member fight in the wars then one has not been effected by them? If you believe that then you're taking way too narrow a view. |
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| Halcyon+On+On |
| quote: | Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
whilst i certainly agree, i would still argue that some wars had to be fought, and those that say, defeated fascism should be shown some respect. |
Wow, Fascism was defeated?
Link? |
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| zoogla |
fine, moral, u remember more WW2 facts than me, I'll concede on those points.
| quote: | Originally posted by Moral Hazard
Are you suggesting that unless one had a family member fight in the wars then one has not been effected by them? If you believe that then you're taking way too narrow a view. |
no, i'm merely suggesting that that is MY approach which i admit is narrow but only because it's harder for me to internalize the grief when it didn't hit "close to home" so to speak. I believe that's pretty normal. and to each and everyone their own, so others can conclude whether or not they were "personally Affected" their own way. ;) |
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| elFreak |
| Look man, i get what you mean, and can certainly understand your anti war sentiment, but the reality is that the world HAD to react to Hitler's actions. The first World War was somewhat of a necessary evil as well. Are you actually saying that Hitler should have been left alone and allowed to do what he wanted? The world would not be the same today, and I am not talking in a good way, even if i hate jews:p |
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| elFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
fine, moral, u remember more WW2 facts than me, I'll concede on those points.
no, i'm merely suggesting that that is MY approach which i admit is narrow but only because it's harder for me to internalize the grief when it didn't hit "close to home" so to speak. I believe that's pretty normal. and to each and everyone their own, so others can conclude whether or not they were "personally Affected" their own way. ;) |
a muslim not caring about the extermination of jews...that is a first:p
ps. i had grand parents fight on BOTH sides. |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On
Wow, Fascism was defeated?
Link? |
LMAO
no, Jay, I don't think Hitler should have been appeased, but I think every country involved should have made mandatory conscription (I think Canada might have..., I should just look it up) and then I would totally support the veterans without any second thoughts. but it's those cowboy flyboys (which I love and respect--i think they're pretty cool actually) who went to fight just out of the excitement of it that i don't think necessarily have to be remembered for going kamikaze with their lack of experience when the Red Baron plowed them.
on the other hand, those soldiers who perform selfless acts of bravery and valour who take a bullet for their partner on the ground, that's commendable and I salute all those heros. (to some extent, even those in Iraq and Afghanistan, who are facing death and rise to the occasion--even though i don't think they should be there in the first place and they have what's coming to them if they play with fire)
, i guess i do really care about remembrance day but i just needed to vent a little. :p |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by elFreak
a muslim not caring about the extermination of jews...that is a first:p
ps. i had grand parents fight on BOTH sides. |
well, yeah, i thought the jew part was self-explanatory :p
and all of TA knows the BOTH sides cuz of your german flag at that WW monument, u jackass :haha: |
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| elFreak |
Canada did have conscription.
http://wwii.ca/linkcat-1.html
read up on the country you chose to call home paki:p
bear in mind Canada's population was only 11 million at the time, and see the insane percentage of young men the totals are.;) |
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| elFreak |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
well, yeah, i thought the jew part was self-explanatory :p
and all of TA knows the BOTH sides cuz of your german flag at that WW monument, u jackass :haha: |
actually my grandfather was an italian facist who defected and was put in a German prison camp in which he spent 2 years before the Canadian troops liberated them. It is why he chose to come to Canada. While he remains facist in his beliefs today, he did not believe in what the Germans wanted to accomplish (genocide). He got caught up in Mussolini's propaganda about the return of the glory of Rome.
Seriously fahad, some of your comments make me feel like you do not deserve to live here. Pathetic...go back to pakistan and see how much better it is there. |
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| Moral Hazard |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
fine, moral, u remember more WW2 facts than me, I'll concede on those points. |
(military history minor)
| quote: | | no, i'm merely suggesting that that is MY approach which i admit is narrow but only because it's harder for me to internalize the grief when it didn't hit "close to home" so to speak. I believe that's pretty normal. and to each and everyone their own, so others can conclude whether or not they were "personally Affected" their own way. ;) |
One need not internalize the grief in order to be thankful for the sacrafices of others that safeguarded all that we hold dear and made our present lifestyle possible. |
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| elFreak |
| i think you will like the website i posted moral...it has a lot of material for people who are into this sort of thing. |
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