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Vancouver RCMP Taser, Assault & Kill Polish Man at Vancouver Airport (pg. 11)
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| Dr. DAS |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
I'm getting a sense that you have a misunderstanding of how a military functions |
Too many movies...lol
Soldiers don't train to be mindless killing machines, we train for the exact opposite. If I ask you for a ride home, a ham sandwich and fire extinguisher, I expect you to be able to decide which order I need them.
Knowing when NOT to shoot is more important then when to shoot. I did a fair amount of training with the Hamilton police (they used our armoury for training) and there are a lot of parallels to military training. The modern soldier no longer takes and holds ground, he solves problems. Like a police officer. |
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| Dr. DAS |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
I'm getting a sense that you have a misunderstanding of how a military functions |
Too many movies...lol
Soldiers don't train to be mindless killing machines, we train for the exact opposite. If I ask you for a ride home, a ham sandwich and fire extinguisher, I expect you to be able to decide which order I need them.
Knowing when NOT to shoot is more important then when to shoot. I did a fair amount of training with the Hamilton police (they used our armoury for training) and there are a lot of parallels to military training. The modern soldier no longer takes and holds ground, he solves problems. Like a police officer. |
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| spolitta |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
Because he's not a cop-hater? |
So according to you we all must be cop haters because we think using the taser was unnecessary in Robert Dziekanski’s case?
Yes Dr.DAS I get what you mean. The law enforcement officers are risking their lives to do a job no one ever asked them to do but I guess being a hero comes at a price; not to forget they “risk” it for a very reasonable salary. I don’t hate cops because I’m not a moron but the only thing that matters in this case is that they should have not used the taser. From your point of view, which would be the same as the very selfish RCMP’s point of view it was ok to tase Robert Dziekanski because he was acting all foolish, didn’t speak any English and hey tasers don’t usually kill. |
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| jon jon |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
If I ask you for a ride home, a ham sandwich and fire extinguisher, I expect you to be able to decide which order I need them.
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lol HMmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by zokissima
typically in any military situation, there is no question nor tactic regarding "less-than-lethal" force, and you are trained to kill. |
I'm hoping I'm understanding your comment correctly, but no.
I'll give an example of rules of engagement that I am to follow to resolve a potentially dangerous situation.
For example, there is a riot crowd. (and assuming the situation continues to escalate)
Non lethal options
1. Presence: Soldier stands in front of the crowd. (and hope that the crowd goes away)
2. Verbal and/or hand gestures: Talk to crowd to disperse.
If the crowd starts being more belligerent, or trying to distrupt the soldiers,
3. Hand strikes: ie pushing away using hands.
4. Non lethal weapons: such as usage of pepper spray, batons if available and trained on usage
Lethal force options
5. Point rifle: to show possibility of using deadly force if immediately not complying.
6. Warning shot: rifle is fired at a safe direction
7. Aimed shot: shoot to kill
As long as the situation remains the same, the use of force also does not escalate. But the point is that there are other options other than shoot to kill for military personnel, taking into the fact that civillian casualties is very much frowned upon.
yes, the military is trained to kill, but only when necessary. |
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| StereoPrincess |
first of all. let's stop saying he had mental problems.
he spent 10 hours looking for his mother. he was afraid if he went one way he wouldn't be able to go back where he came from. that's why he was trying to block the door. he didn't smash the computer, he dropped it.
the RCMP go through training for using the tazer. these guys went in ready to use it without any thought.
it is a well studied fact that you can't tazer people you suspect are in drugs (tweaked out people) and you can't tazer people in the age where they could have heart problems. so what gives? wanted to give people a show with their fancy toy? they sure did give people a show. killing a guy and then not even giving him any first aid when he lay dying on the ground. |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by spolitta
So according to you we all must be cop haters because we think using the taser was unnecessary in Robert Dziekanski’s case?
Yes Dr.DAS I get what you mean. The law enforcement officers are risking their lives to do a job no one ever asked them to do but I guess being a hero comes at a price; not to forget they “risk” it for a very reasonable salary. I don’t hate cops because I’m not a moron but the only thing that matters in this case is that they should have not used the taser. From your point of view, which would be the same as the very selfish RCMP’s point of view it was ok to tase Robert Dziekanski because he was acting all foolish, didn’t speak any English and hey tasers don’t usually kill. |
So, you're appalled at my comments because? |
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| StereoPrincess |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
maybe tasers should come with a warning sign that says' WARNING: tasers may cause death to people with health problems
/tongue in cheek comment |
THEY DO COME WITH THAT WARNING! |
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| StereoPrincess |
| We can turn the day Robert died into "Love all the Polish People Around You Day" |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
Being in a dangerous situation is something that may happen in a cop's career, but by no means they get paid for getting their ass shot off. They may have to do dangerous things, or put themselves in dangerous situations in order to complete their job, but they want to take as minimal risk to themselves and others as much as possible |
I don't think their salaries are relevant here. I have several cop friends and I know how their mothers/wives/girlfriends feel everytime they leave home for work. There's always a possibility that they might not return, and that is an acceptable part of the job that all cops and their families know. I believe they have special professional insurance policies to cover for their line of work, so the compensation for risk is actually indirectly covered (for the families).
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
People must be really stupid to willingly join the army or police to get shot eh? (And they spend so much time and effort training to NOT get their ass shot off) |
I don't call it stupidity, I call it courage. I don't have the courage to work at a job everyday where there's a chance I can take a bullet. (plus, I think I can make a lot more money doing something else! :p)
| quote: | Originally posted by Superstring
Assume the man is a dangerous super-criminal with 4 submachines, a pack of explosives stuck to his chest, and a predator-like ray gun on his shoulder -- UEBER dangerous in other words. Are you going to approach him and taze him? No way - you first find out what he wants.
Yea, just taze him, go go go! Whoopie! Accidental death! sowwy :( |
LOL I <3 ur comments...hilarious! :haha:
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
first sign that I see, for example, he's showing signs that he's pointing a weapon at me, or is reaching for the trigger device for the bomb, I put rounds into his chest. |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
If I saw dude with a bomb strapped to his chest, he dies where he stands. No discussion. Communication is a two-way street, and you can't drive that street when your carrying a bomb. |
I think both of you would be overreacting even in this hypothetical dangerous situation. If some dangerous guy with all these weapons was just standing around, there's a reason he hasn't pulled the trigger and detonated the bomb already. In the western world where human rights are protected, our law enforcement actually has staff that take the time to understand why the dangerous guy is doing what he's doing. They're called "negotiators" (not just for hostages). If the guy wanted to kill everyone he would have done it by that point. Our society is all about "curing the diseased" so if this hypothetical guy was f*cked in the head, police would still risk their lives (to a reasonable extent, i.e. speaking from a megaphone until they get a confirmation of intent from the dangerous guy) trying to save his, if they're doing their job properly, imo. That might seem a bit naive, but I believe that forms the fabric of our society. Then they'd throw the guy into the looney bin, which is better than ending his life, according to the principles of our society, I think.
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
My only line of arguing is that everyone is giving the benefit of the doubt to the victim, and none to the officers. |
If the only evidence is the video we have, I don't think there is any reasonable doubt that the officers are responsible for the death. They (at least the one who administered the shock) should be charged and convicted for manslaughter, and the other three for conspiracy. But of course, the Special Investigations will probably do a better job researching and concluding than me!
| quote: | Originally posted by StereoPrincess
We can turn the day Robert died into "Love all the Polish People Around You Day" |
I love this idea! :) |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
So, you're appalled at my comments because? |
Maybe because in this thread you've come across as a goof? |
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