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Vancouver RCMP Taser, Assault & Kill Polish Man at Vancouver Airport (pg. 15)
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by Superstring
Correct, that's what I was going for. 1. guy throws tantrum gets tazed. 2. guy doesn't throw tantrum, still tazed. |
I must be wearing the dunce cap today.
So what's your point? Cops are evil? |
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| infinity HiGH |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
I must be wearing the dunce cap today.
So what's your point? Cops are evil? |
No. They're stupid and unfit at making serious, situational decisions such as this. |
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| tvmann |
Don't know if it's been mentioned in this thread already, but RCMP were involved in another death in BC a few weeks ago. This one happened in my town which is about 100 km east of Vancouver.
According to the news, a man was seen to be driving erratically so the police were called when he stopped and went into an equipment rental store and that is where RCMP confronted him. The rental store is almost directly across the street from the RCMP detachment.
"Knipstrom was pepper sprayed, Tasered, and hit with a baton before he was subdued by police."
The man was very bloody and lying face-down but conscious, handcuffed and on a stretcher in some photos of the scene. Medical reports are not yet completed so cause of death is still not known to the public.
I have to wonder why he was placed face-down and handcuffed with his hands behind him, when this is known to be medically dangerous to an injured person because breathing is more difficult.
Also why was such a severe beating required to subdue him? Apparently none of the police were injured in the incident.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-co...er.html?ref=rss
http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_v...s/11795026.html
http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_v...ays_friend.html
http://www.bclocalnews.com/fraser_v...s/12121646.html
I have a scanner radio and would often listen to the local police calls a few months earlier (scanner no longer works) - I always had a relatively good impression of the RCMP from this - basically this is a pretty dull town and almost all local crime and police activity is very minor - a few rowdy teens, drunk drivers, stolen cars, and the RCMP seemed to handle that stuff OK.
On the other hand I know a guy who said RCMP tried to taunt him into a fight when they found him sleeping in his car one night. And I know another guy who was punched out by RCMP when he did not answer questions quickly enough after being stopped for drunk driving (he admits he was drunk).
The idea I get from reading about these incidents is that the RCMP is really not very well trained for local contract policing such as they do in Western Canada. Provincial police in Ontario & Quebec (OPP/QPP) are apparently better trained for this type of work (& using the Taser) and suspicious deaths of people at the hands of the police are much less common. So maybe we need to set up a "BC Provincial Police" to replace the RCMP. |
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| EvilTree |
| The question is whether police brutality is only found in rare, isolated incidents perpetuated by few bad apples, or is this wide pandemic among police forces. |
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| Dr. DAS |
Everyone hates cops...
...until you're frantically dialing 911. |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by EvilTree
The question is whether police brutality is only found in rare, isolated incidents perpetuated by few bad apples, or is this wide pandemic among police forces. |
No, I believe the (very interesting) question being raised by tvmann is whether such irresponsible actions are more common in BC vs. other RCMP forces, which based on recent media representation, seems like a logical conclusion.
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
Everyone hates cops... |
okay! |
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| Spam |
I haven't read this entire thread because I hit onto it late, so forgive any double-arguments that have already been flung around.
All I want to say in this case is that the Officers in question are trained to use the taser to bring down unruly people who refuse to cooperate. They are taught that the taser is a NON-LETHAL instrument, and thus, they probably had no idea their tasering could lead to death. Remember, every single police officer who uses a taser, has had the taser used on them at least once.
Based on their training, and education... Their use of the taser was probably the right call in the first place... Civilians in the airport had tried to calm this man down, airport security had tried to calm the man down, and yet he continued to throw things around the airport and kick and scream and holler and act like a 4 year old who didn't get his lollipop. Even though he wasn't posing a direct threat to anybody in the airport, (witnesses claim he had partitioned himself off in a corner or seperate room or some such) police were called in to calm the situation, which they did, in 30 seconds.
We could question why 4 officers couldn't man-handle the guy to the ground like most people are wondering. We can question their use of the taser instead of pepper-spray. But both those options ignore the fact that, in the minds of these officers, the taser was equally non-lethal, and also cuts down their chances of being injured by the man while wrestling him to the ground.
However, the second tasering was completely uncalled for, and the cop that fired off the second taser should be fired.
Unfortunately, I don't think we can hold the man's death against the specific officers in question, due to the fact that they are taught that the taser is non-lethal. Whether or not there were questionable death's involving tasers in the past, their higher-ups would probably have repeated the mantra that the taser is non-lethal, and as such, safe to use.
I think tasers are a required instrument for police to use instead of guns. Whether they cause death's in a small percentage of incidences or not, there is no questioning that the taser is less-lethal than a gun. What these recent taser-deaths DO indicate, is that the rules and procedures regarding when an officer is allowed to taser a person need to be edited such that the person in question has to be posing a threat to people or the officer. Also, and I would argue, more importantly, the rules should state that the taser only be used ONCE in any given circumstance. Once the suspect is on the ground writhing in electrical shock and pain, there is no need to use a second taser. If, somehow, the victim is still able to struggle, then the officers should have enough of an advantage (you know, since they're still standing and all) to physically subdue the person, or pepperspray the out their eyes until they scream 'Uncle'. I guess in a nutshell, they need to modify (see: Improve) their training.
That is all. |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
Everyone hates cops...
...until you're frantically dialing 911. |
Oh come on. Give me a break. :rolleyes: |
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| Dr. DAS |
| quote: | Originally posted by The Highroller
Oh come on. Give me a break. :rolleyes: |
If you read back through the whole thread, I was one of a handfull of people NOT suggesting we lynch the RCMP.
But really, how many time do you catch yourself saying, "Oh good, a cop car!" |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
But really, how many time do you catch yourself saying, "Oh good, a cop car!" |
Never. Why? I have had way more negative experience with the Toronto police than positive experience. I know I am far from the only one with this opinion. And don't even get me started on police just staying in their cars and refusing to walk the beat.
The Toronto police need to do a lot more PR activities in the community to improve their image in Toronto.
This is going off on a huge tangent from the original purpose of this thread though, and I think we should keep to the discussion at hand. If you'd like to start a new thread on TOTA's opinion of the Toronto police, go right ahead. |
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| tvmann |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spam
All I want to say in this case is that the Officers in question are trained to use the taser to bring down unruly people who refuse to cooperate. They are taught that the taser is a NON-LETHAL instrument, and thus, they probably had no idea their tasering could lead to death. Remember, every single police officer who uses a taser, has had the taser used on them at least once.
Based on their training, and education... Their use of the taser was probably the right call in the first place... |
From the video it shows that they decided to use the laser even before contacting the victim. They are supposed to be trained to use the Taser as a weapon of last resort but clearly many of them have been using it (in BC anyway) as a weapon of first resort.
I know this guy who has psych problems, he is well known to cops in this town to be harmless but occasionally he's a nuisance - what he does is knock on a house door and say "Jesus is lord" and then he walks away. After he does this at a few houses the cops come and take him home or to the hospital or doctor office, sometimes he is arrested. Once they came and put the handcuffs on him and he's on his face on the ground, So he's totally under their control and zero danger. They pointed the Taser at him and said they would Taser him if he made any noise. So they treat the Taser very casually and are not using it at all as last-resort weapon.
It's usually better than the RCMP using guns though and they have this stupid "shoot to kill" training they use as an excuse. There was a case a few years ago on Vancouver Island where this guy and his teenage son were drunk and throwing firecrackers around. Cop came to investigate and they threw some firecrackers in his direction. He knew it was just firecrackers but he shot and killed both of them. No prosecution of the cop or even a demotion or reprimand. Another case a few months ago in Vancouver of a crazy guy swinging a bike chain at cops, they shot him about a dozen times, including in the back after he's down and trying to crawl off the street.
In BC apparently there is not as good an investigation and prosecution process as in other provinces when the cops assault or kill people needlessly - they are almost above the law and they know it. |
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