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Vancouver RCMP Taser, Assault & Kill Polish Man at Vancouver Airport (pg. 2)
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| n!kola |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
...Incompetent s. I'm disgusted by this story :mad: :mad: :mad: |
:( |
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| FunkyCrew |
| quote: | Originally posted by infinity HiGH
I think just about every person would be a little "off" mentally after the ordeal this man has been through.
I can't for the life of me understand the reasoning used by the RCMP officers that led to this. Incompetent s. I'm disgusted by this story :mad: :mad: :mad: |
10 hours is just inhumane
and noone even thought of getting him an interpretor
ridiculous! |
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| jon jon |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
Never been zapped with the gun-style one, but I've been zapped with a hand unit. |
lol come on, you gotta keep going |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
10 hours is just inhumane
and noone even thought of getting him an interpretor
ridiculous! |
apparently, one was not available at that time. I wonder what time he arrived at the airport, as I can't imagine there being any time that a person can stand in the same spot for more than 2 hours without being questioned. I guess Polish people don't look like terrorists :p
My Mom was really saddened by this story, and made me stay up late to watch it on the news last night. I was really upset when I saw the video and the guy simply did not understand what the cops were asking and shortly after he got stunned. That's simply ridiculous, treating the man like an animal. Poor lonely mother now :( |
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| afterhrsgurl |
| i saw this on the news a while back....soo freaking sad that his first day in Canada was also his last all because of dumb ass idiots who don't know how to handle their properly!!:mad: I think the guy was a little bit unstable mentally and he freaked out bc he couldn't find his mom...he must have had an anxiety attack at the time and them attacking him just made him freak out 10 times more...As Funky Crew said...get a ing interpreter or something..plus there are other ways to calm down a person than using what they did |
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| rabbitjoker |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
I've been zapped with a hand unit. It hurts. A lot. |
In the early 90s we used to build hand tasers and sell them online via the newsgroups/irc.
They were basically flash capacitors in a housing with Li batteries used in series to charge them up and then a trigger to fire it. They arched up and hurt real good - but were never enough amperage to kill someone. Active Surplus was the place to get the parts. |
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| Dr. DAS |
| quote: | Originally posted by Orko
was standing with his hands up in the air... They talked to him for a whole 10sec before they taserd him. |
I don't see that.
I see him standing with his arms at his side, possibly in front of him when he gets shot, his arms fly up when he's hit. You cannot see what is going on because of the desks in the way. Who's to say that he wasn't fumbling for his wallet, which was interpereted by the RCMP as fumbling for a knife or whatever. After going down, he resists 4, count 'em 4 officers for a good while...unless that was some kind of seizure preceeding his death.
This is what the tazer is for. He was obviously beligerent, moving furniture to block a doorway where the authourities were. He smashed a computer. He tried to smash a pane of glass with a table, and almost again with the computer he threw down.
I'm not saying that the RCMP are in the right here, I'm just saying that this weapon exists for this purpose. What force options did the RCMP have if they felt threatened by his posture? Gun, OC spray, baton and taser.
Gun, 'nuff said. OC spray, there were other people in the terminal and, despite being behind a glass partition, they would likely have been affected by the spray and the whole terminal would be cleared out and shut down until the air could be cleared (like at CW Jeffery's school last week). Baton, sure, let's beat him down - OR - hit him with a taser which, typically, causes short-term paralysis and has no ill effects.
If this was me, zap me.
I believe the use of the taser was the right move, but perhaps not the decision to use force at all. However, is anyone going to blame the cops for taking no chances in an airport?
It's possible the man had some undiagnosed medical condition that was aggravated by the shock. I don't know, you don't know, now can we all stop speculating? Cops have a hard enough job as it is without public outrage based on theory. If you had been in that terminal and been subject to this man's odd tirade, you would probably be championing the RCMP.
If you want to be outraged, be outraged that after he's found to be dead, nobody bothered to start CPR, despite being fully trained to do so, and nobody went for the airport's difribulator. |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
Who's to say that he wasn't fumbling for his wallet, which was interpereted by the RCMP as fumbling for a knife or whatever. |
I guess this is something we will never know, unless there are closed-circuit cameras that can show the opposite angle (hopefully, not being blocked by the 4 cops that completely surrounded him).
For me, the taser was completely the wrong move, pocket fumbling or not, in view of the following:
- Despite destruction of property, no one was in physical danger due to the man
- The man did not attack the cops
- The man was outnumbered by 4 cops
- Due to the fact that no one was in imminent physical danger, the cops should not use force until they can confirm that man understands what they are asking. |
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| Dr. DAS |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
40
he spent 10 hours in the waiting area, started getting agitated and stuff
i think he wasn't well either (mentally) |
He spent 10 hours there, he wasn't detained for 10 hours there. If you're confused, there are ways to find help, no matter what language barrier exists.
Or, y'know, walk outside. This is going to sound callous, but perhaps in that big bag of geography texts, he should have found space for a Polish/English dictionary or phrasebook and his mom's phone number.
If he was mentally ill, all the more reason to shock him. Mentally ill people can be unpredictable, dangerous and uncannily strong.
Sad? Yes. |
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| Dr. DAS |
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
For me, the taser was completely the wrong move, pocket fumbling or not, in view of the following:
- Despite destruction of property, no one was in physical danger due to the man
- The man did not attack the cops
- The man was outnumbered by 4 cops
- Due to the fact that no one was in imminent physical danger, the cops should not use force until they can confirm that man understands what they are asking. |
-Are you sure about nobody being in danger? He was trying to throw a table through a plate glass window. Sounds dangerous to me. Who's to say what would have happened had he goteen out of the secure area to where the crowd was?
-The absence of a physical attack doesn't address his body language or facial expression. What if he had just smiled that 'what the hell, I'm screwed anyways I might as well try and get him' smile and the cops got the jump on him.
-I'd rather 4:1 than 1:4, or 1:1 for that matter.
-"Excuse me sir, do you understand that I believe you to be an imminent dang..."*STAB*
"Sir, please cease stabbing my fellow officer until I can locate a translator"
Sucks that he's dead, but better safe than sorry. |
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| zoogla |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
-Are you sure about nobody being in danger? He was trying to throw a table through a plate glass window. Sounds dangerous to me. Who's to say what would have happened had he goteen out of the secure area to where the crowd was? |
He was very close to a lady that was trying to help, and nothing was going on. Also, as I said earlier, the guy wasn't trying to run anywhere and that area he was standing in (where the counter was) seemed empty, so I believe the cops should have taken a little time to investigate and discover that people were in pretty close contact and had been watching him for some time, to get some context for the situation. I recall in the news story that some people tried to explain the situation to the cops, including the airport security which were watching him for some time, and the cops brushed them off. If you've got 4 cops, (and the guy isn't causing any bodily harm which could possibly require 4 cops to restrain him) at least one could do some investigation!
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
-The absence of a physical attack doesn't address his body language or facial expression. What if he had just smiled that 'what the hell, I'm screwed anyways I might as well try and get him' smile and the cops got the jump on him. |
I find this unacceptable rationale. A smile shouldn't prompt an attack. Even if he reached into his pockets, the cops should wait to deliver the shock until they see a gun coming out. They could have fired the wires at him but not delivered the shock until they verified whatever he was holding (if that the reason they tasered him; which in my opinion is the ONLY acceptable reason).
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
-I'd rather 4:1 than 1:4, or 1:1 for that matter. |
I wasn't saying he shouldn't be outnumbered, but the fact that he was outnumbered should warrant less use of force.
| quote: | Originally posted by Dr. DAS
-"Excuse me sir, do you understand that I believe you to be an imminent dang..."*STAB*
"Sir, please cease stabbing my fellow officer until I can locate a translator" |
Srsly? :rolleyes: |
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| EvilTree |
| quote: | Originally posted by FunkyCrew
10 hours is just inhumane
and noone even thought of getting him an interpretor
ridiculous! |
I believe it's one of the airport security said something about get a Russian interpreter in the video
| quote: | Originally posted by fayraree
I guess this is something we will never know, unless there are closed-circuit cameras that can show the opposite angle (hopefully, not being blocked by the 4 cops that completely surrounded him). |
The angle of the video is kinda irrelevant when you have to take into the fact that you have to see from the officers point of view. If the officer felt dangered by this man, well, he is suppose to make a judgement on what level of force to use to protect himself and others.
Not saying that the officer made the correct judgement, but just because the video later shows that the man wasn't putting a knife for example, but the officer felt that a man reaching for his coat could have been going for a knife isn't enough to convict the officer.
(again, just an example to show that we should look from the officers point of view)
| quote: |
For me, the taser was completely the wrong move, pocket fumbling or not, in view of the following:
- Despite destruction of property, no one was in physical danger due to the man |
The man was clearly showing willingness to violence by his destruction of property.| quote: |
- The man did not attack the cops |
The cops could have felt sufficiently dangered by this man, by the facial expression and general body language of this man.| quote: |
- The man was outnumbered by 4 cops |
Irrelevant. Doesn't matter if it's one cop or a hundred cops, cops are suppose to use minimum force necessary to resolve the situation, but by taking as least chance as possible of getting harmed himself, or others.| quote: |
- Due to the fact that no one was in imminent physical danger, the cops should not use force until they can confirm that man understands what they are asking. |
A situation can change in a blink of an eye, from a peaceful conversation to a full brawl. It is up to the officer to decide how much of escalation of force is necessary.
Having said that and having watched all of the video, from the moment that the cops confronted the man to the man getting tasered, seems everything escalated rather fast, when the man seems to be moving away from the cops. (Does he even understand that he's dealing with cops at this point?)
I'm also rather disturbed by rather... casual body language of the cop who tasered the man. Seems very out of proportion to the situation, when the man does not seem very actively belligerent.
Well, the inquiry should bring up some interesting results. |
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