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Federal Election 2008 Thread (pg. 17)
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| Dave Akermanis |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
Dion + meek, garbled speech + solid platform (IMHO)
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Harper + perfect English + weak initiatives thus far (IMHO) + unreleased/unknown formal platform (fact)
I'll take Dion and the Libs, thanks (or NDP or Green, if you prefer)
seriously...when the platforms are *so* different, I can't believe that speaking/language is even a deciding factor, lol. wow. |
While i agree with your point on the platform bit, and would never vote Harper and the Conservatives myself, I'll have to agree that communication skills are essential if you want to be a leader.
Think about it this way: Just because one product is better than another, doesn't necessarily mean that more people will buy it. Marketing & communications is essential. |
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| Skipper |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
Dion + meek, garbled speech + solid platform (IMHO)
or
Harper + perfect English + weak initiatives thus far (IMHO) + unreleased/unknown formal platform (fact)
I'll take Dion and the Libs, thanks (or NDP or Green, if you prefer)
seriously...when the platforms are *so* different, I can't believe that speaking/language is even a deciding factor, lol. wow. |
I don't like his carbon tax focus, and I don't buy some of his economic promises... so that's kind of another deciding factor ;)
I personally think Harper has done a decent job during his time in the hot seat so far. There have been blunders sure, but there always are. I'm not itching for change like they are down south. |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
I didn't have a problem with Chretien, but I thought his accent wasn't as bad and he had enough of a presence otherwise to offset it.
Dion is a boob. When he argues I find the words just stumble awkwardly out of his mouth. It's not just an accent. He's not convincing at all, and if you want to vote for someone who can't convince anyone of anything, that's your call. I don't think he has the presence of a politician and he won't get my vote because of it. |
Who said I was voting for Dion?
I wasn't talking about how effective he is at communicating overall, I was just challenging the common exaggeration about his French accent. Although he may not be as articulate or confident in his speaking as some of the other leaders (even in French as 1dawoman pointed out), his French accent certainly does not affect his ability to communicate in English in any significant way. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by Dave Akermanis
While i agree with your point on the platform bit, and would never vote Harper and the Conservatives myself, I'll have to agree that communication skills are essential if you want to be a leader.
Think about it this way: Just because one product is better than another, doesn't necessarily mean that more people will buy it. Marketing & communications is essential. |
agreed...it's important from a "marketing" standpoint, to get the general population to buy in.
I'm suggesting (hoping) that most people here are smart enough to not need to be "sold" in that manner and that we can evaluate the party platforms and competencies of each leader without needing the pretty packaging :)
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
I don't like his carbon tax focus, and I don't buy some of his economic promises... so that's kind of another deciding factor ;)
I personally think Harper has done a decent job during his time in the hot seat so far. There have been blunders sure, but there always are. I'm not itching for change like they are down south. |
fair enough. as long as someone is not taking a "well, since all things are equal, I don't like Dion's personality or demeanour so I won't vote for him".
I don't mean to imply that's not how *you* are looking at it. I simply hope that people in general aren't taking that approach. The party platform differences are significant enough to offset the leadership personalities, IMHO. (It just so happens that I also think Harper is a turd, lol)
I don't see the Libs winning with Dion as leader anyway...I just want to avoid a CPC majority. I also want the opposition to work together instead of allowing Harper to govern as if he DOES have a majority (as he's been able to do all along). |
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| The Highroller |
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
I'd say Graham's not your average Canadian english listener, considering he lived in France for a year ;) |
That may be so, but that doesn't mean I'm not able to detect when someone's French accent is hindering their ability to communicate in English. |
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| ChemEnhanced |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
agreed...it's important from a "marketing" standpoint, to get the general population to buy in.
I'm suggesting (hoping) that most people here are smart enough to not need to be "sold" in that manner and that we can evaluate the party platforms and competencies of each leader without needing the pretty packaging :)
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That's some serious hoping you are doing. |
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| MarkT |
| quote: | Originally posted by ChemEnhanced
That's some serious hoping you are doing. |
I'm an idealist sometimes :(
We can't really control whether or not a party keeps its promises and whether or not it actually chooses or is able to implement its platform.
All we can do is evaluate each, with our limited understanding of "how it all really works" and go from there.
I don't think it's too much to ask someone to view even a summary of the key points of each platform and decide from there...but I know that most probably don't even do that, lol. |
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| oldschool420 |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
I don't see the Libs winning with Dion as leader anyway...I just want to avoid a CPC majority. I also want the opposition to work together instead of allowing Harper to govern as if he DOES have a majority (as he's been able to do all along). |
+1! |
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| musicsnob_NOT |
| quote: | Originally posted by malek
Duceppe wasn't that good today, he was very nervous. He didn't end his words and sentences which only made him hard to understand. I liked the part where he's just frank saying "i will not be a PM and neither you three" pointing at everyone except harper. |
I loved that line and wish all our politicians were more honest and up front. Duceppe when he is on has more personality and charisma that all the other 4 leaders combined.
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
because when international affairs are conducted in english, he's going to struggle communicating.
because 2 of the most powerful nations in the world -US and Britain - are obviously english. |
Have you ever heard Bush speak? What about those damn Brits with their proper English...talk about hard to understand.
:P
| quote: | Originally posted by Skipper
I didn't have a problem with Chretien, but I thought his accent wasn't as bad and he had enough of a presence otherwise to offset it.
Dion is a boob. When he argues I find the words just stumble awkwardly out of his mouth. It's not just an accent. He's not convincing at all, and if you want to vote for someone who can't convince anyone of anything, that's your call. I don't think he has the presence of a politician and he won't get my vote because of it. |
I think your big issue has more to do with him as a person and not just his ability to speak English. The biggest problem we have is all of our political leaders leave a lot to be desired. None of them have that extra something. There is no charisma, no personality, no leadership qualities (there is no Trudeau, Reagan, Castro, Thatcher, Clinton, to name a few). Layton with his porn stache just appears to be too much of a joke, Dion is just a nerd who appears to be scared and timid. Duceppe I actually don't mind but as he said last night isn't really a choice. May, while she impressed me just seems like someones mother who is trying to teach you something but just doesn't come off as a leader. Harper...what can I say. I think he is a great politician BUT he isn't a leader. He always looks so awkward when he isn't talking and listening. He should be a behind the scenes advisor..
Until we get some new blood in the federal scene we are going to be stuck with this bland, oatmeal for breakfast candidates.
I know people will definetly not agree with this but the Conservatives need someone like Mike Harris. Love him or hate him he was a great leader and speaker. They would have had this election wrapped up long ago. As much as I hate the Liberals they would have been doing so much better if they had gone with Rae, or
even if they had gone in a different direction with Kennedy (who I hate, but he is a great speaker). Its ironic the Liberals are in the position they are in because of Kennedy. |
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| Yohan |
Even with a Cons minority, it'll be like last parliament all over again. Does Canadians want another election in 2 yrs? That was the Sword of Damocles for the opposition and it'll be similar climate again.
So if the Cons win the election, it'll be just like winning a majority, at least for 3 yrs IMO |
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| DigiNut |
| quote: | Originally posted by MarkT
Dion ... solid platform (IMHO) |
Hahahaha, that's a good one.
Yes, carbon taxes and more handouts are a superb platform.
| quote: | | Harper ... unreleased/unknown formal platform (fact) |
I don't see how that's a "fact". It sounds like the same FUD that Liberal supporters were talking about during the last election with Harper's "hidden agenda". Aside from a few cock-ups here and there, he's basically done what he said he was going to do, in spite of having a minority government. There's no reason to believe he won't continue to support the same policies. |
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| malek |
Can any of the Liberals in this thread answer this? no one so far was able to...
To those who understand the green shift program from the liberals.
I understand that Dion wants to reduce everyone's taxation, and shift it to those that pollute (people and companies).
In other words, he'll reduce the taxes of citizens and corporations regardless, and tax things, services and production means that are harmful for the environment.
If it's well calculated, this move would not alter govt revenues (economic cost 0$).
The intention is that by taxing pollution, it would discourage those who produce it and reduce pollution essentially.
My question is, 5-10 years down the road, if pollution is significantly reduced, thus taxation coming from that source, reduced. How will the government make up for those losses? Hike taxes back to their original levels? |
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