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Enough is Enough (pg. 3)
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| bluejay |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike
cmon even u must admit bush is a wanker that dont no what hes doing. |
lol...why do you think that bush is a wanker??? just curious... |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike
cmon even u must admit bush is a wanker that dont no what hes doing. |
no on the contrary i beleive hes oding a good job in the war...in fact i beleive he can do more but hes probally holding back .
| quote: | | Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike But what i wanna no, is when anyone starts a thread on september 11th, u dont hesitate to speak ur mind and say what ******s the taliban are. But... when JohnSmith starts a thread, and this time its the other way round, and its the afghanistan civilians are getting killed, all u can say is "its war PEOPLE DIE." I think ur being a bit of a hypocrite, and to me it looks like u are someone who has nothing better to do than attack anyone that isnt american. :( |
NO ur not undertsnading what i am saying...lemme TRY and explain...
OK...Americans woke up 1 day and where attacked...right?./..ok we where NOT in war times and we did not know of any attacks that could happen...we did not have ANY warning that this was going to happen...well maybe the government did but we as American civilians did not have a glimpse of a warning...
NOW...the Afghan people KNOW they are in WAR TIMES...they know we are goign to attack their country...in an effort to get the terrorists....
see the difference?....Afghans know they are in war times...we did not...they attacked us blindly...we are attacking with them having FULL knowledge that we are at war....BIG DIFFERENCE...
AND HOW DO I ATTACK ANYONE WHOS NOT AMERICAN?....what country have i EVER bashed?...because i defend my country that means i hate all others...sorry but your wrong...i am just defending my own... |
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| Kamaya |
I just wanted to let u know that a lot of people in The Netherlands (among my friends) have a bit the idea that the USA are becomming a bit arrogant.
It's not that we hate Americans or something and we don't convict the Americans or anything like that, but when we see Bush on tv this little feeling of 'oh no, not that arrogant prick again' rises among our heads.
I also think the Amarican government is sooo hypocritical in EVERYTHING, but on the other hand you've got to protect your country, at (almost) all costs.
I'm not beginning a discussion about this post, it's just something I wanted to say, I want you (all) to know these thoughts are common and negative.
(ow yeah, Jason R, just hit the 'quote' button on the right-bottom-corner if you want to quote something with the name of the person who wrote it)
Greetz,
Kamaya. |
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| evil_bastard |
Bluejay, I think he was referring to the third world.
Half of the world's population, over 3 BILLION people, live on under $1 a day. A quarter haven't even the RIGHT to education.
Please extend your horizons beyond the likes of the UK, Germany, Sweden, Holland, or whatever, and look at countries like Iraq, Zimbabwe, Indonesia etc and you will see that there IS a lot of hatred towards America. You're possibly talking billions of people.
I'd also like to point out that in the UK and a lot of Europe, the US has a reputation as arrogant and self centred. We have a phrase in the North of England, it's called "giving it the big I AM". It's a sweeping generalisation, of course, but that is what a lot of people think. I'm not saying it's true, there are 300 million people in America, but that's what many think.
"Most people respect the US". Hmmm I'd be careful about forming opinions like that. |
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| DJ Mikey Mike |
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
NO ur not undertsnading what i am saying...lemme TRY and explain...
OK...Americans woke up 1 day and where attacked...right?./..ok we where NOT in war times and we did not know of any attacks that could happen...we did not have ANY warning that this was going to happen...well maybe the government did but we as American civilians did not have a glimpse of a warning...
NOW...the Afghan people KNOW they are in WAR TIMES...they know we are goign to attack their country...in an effort to get the terrorists....
see the difference?....Afghans know they are in war times...we did not...they attacked us blindly...we are attacking with them having FULL knowledge that we are at war....BIG DIFFERENCE...
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fair enuff i see ur point. But i still dont think its rite tho that america, and yes britain too, shud be attacking afghanistan civilians. Ur rite in that they are aware its war, but what can they do? They cant really evacuate can they, where would they go, how would they proceed? They also have no warning that an attack is coming. And if they did, they hardly hav the resources and the transport to get the hell out of there. Neither can they defend themselves.
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
AND HOW DO I ATTACK ANYONE WHOS NOT AMERICAN?....what country have i EVER bashed?...because i defend my country that means i hate all others...sorry but your wrong...i am just defending my own...
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sorry. i thought u were the one who started the "stop bashing american" thread, and in the same thread called all ukta's wankers. mustve been someone else.
| quote: | Originally posted by bluejay
lol...why do you think that bush is a wanker??? just curious...
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hehe... i just think hes made some really bad decisions. And very very recently, the americans bombed an Afghanistan village because they thought they were being attacked. Turns out it was just an afghanistan wedding, with a few fireworks. Some great military america hav got there. Plus, bush cant even read. doesnt he hav all his speeches written phoentically? Im just glad he's not the leader of my country |
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| bluejay |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_bastard
Bluejay, I think he was referring to the third world.
Half of the world's population, over 3 BILLION people, live on under $1 a day. A quarter haven't even the RIGHT to education.
Please extend your horizons beyond the likes of the UK, Germany, Sweden, Holland, or whatever, and look at countries like Iraq, Zimbabwe, Indonesia etc and you will see that there IS a lot of hatred towards America. You're possibly talking billions of people.
I'd also like to point out that in the UK and a lot of Europe, the US has a reputation as arrogant and self centred. We have a phrase in the North of England, it's called "giving it the big I AM". It's a sweeping generalisation, of course, but that is what a lot of people think. I'm not saying it's true, there are 300 million people in America, but that's what many think.
"Most people respect the US". Hmmm I'd be careful about forming opinions like that. |
if so, either way, i don't think i have to be careful about forming an opinion that most people respect(not like or love) the U.S.
china, india, u.s., indonesia, brazil, and russia are the 6 most populated countries in the world. that would include nearly half of the world's poplulation. i think it would be fair to say most people respect the u.s.
but...
if were just to talk about 3 world countries, why would anyone care of their opinions since most of thier ideas are based off of what thier government has led them to believe, and even if they could form thier own opinions with almost no education what-so-ever...why would anyone care for thier opinions. again, i think most people do respect the u.s. |
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| Izzy |
| quote: | Originally posted by evil_bastard
I don't think the Americans shouldn't be there, I think they should have got off their arses 5 years ago instead of waiting until they had no other choice. It was the same in World War Two, the same in the Gulf, stay out of the as long as possible until they are forced to do something, and then go on about the heroics of doing what's they had to. Mind you they're not the only ones.
I do however despise the way these wars are waged. Remember Kosovo anyone? Several hundred thousand people are raped, tortured and killed while the alliance refused to commit any ground troops to the conflict.
And then Afghanistan, where once again it was the bombers, but where are the soldiers? They're Northern alliance squaddies, sent to die in a blaze of glory for which the alliance took credit. Many dead on both sides, and a new era of tension which will be difficult to contain.
In Kosovo, the US air contingent was the biggest by far, the same in Afghanistan. Yet the ground troops committed afterwards to pick up the pieces and do a little bit of nation-building were mostly foreign. Both times the largest contingent was British, with an army a tenth of the size and vastly ill-equipped.
The US is not the sole bearer of responsibility, but it must stop shirking it's peacekeeping responsibilies. I think some of the so called 'realists' need to get real and accept that the US, like the rest of the alliance, needs to get on the ground and sort the problem out first-hand before we have another disaster like Kosovo. You can't exact a 'regime change' from the air. Some Western troops will have to die if we are to get anywhere.
This is war and in war soldiers die. |
Nice post E_B... i do belive a more pro-active attitude should be taken, hopefully now america is doing more to pre-empt actions so that future catastrophies wont happen.
True that the USA does not bear enough responsibility on peace keeping but dont see anything for the rest of the world to complain on that issue, i mean come on here comes those gun bearing cowboys, start a war, win in the blink of an eye and let the others set up the peace. i mean come on, peace keeping is less risky and by doing so you take a bigger role in the future state of the country. if british are peace keeping then ya i dont mind if they instill the tea at high noon thingy. hehe
I completely support Bush's handling of foriegn affiars (and he is getting better by the month). if anything i am disappointed in him for not doing more. the problem is you guys need to take a step back and take a look at the bigger picture, one can not base an entire foreign policyc based on few instances (such as the training mishap, and today's mistake). You have to look at the greater good that is being done, i dont doubt anyone here actually thinks that the situation today is worse than it was before america went out to afghanistan
| quote: | Originally posted by JohnSmith
I condemn the suicide bombers, i condemn the israeli army for attacking refugee camps |
yes you all knew i would have to say something about that. ill make it quick. Im not a pasifist hippy (not saying you are, im stating what i am not). i belive that somethings can not be dealt with through negotations, furthermore, i belive the terrorism (killing of innocent civilians) is always wrong and should be punished. hence israel goes into a refugee camp (legal by geneva under self defense), a breeding ground and home base of terrorist cells, israel never intentially targets innocents nor enjoys it when it happens accedintely. There is nothing to condemn israel for on that matter. |
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| tiesto14 |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike
fair enuff i see ur point. But i still dont think its rite tho that america, and yes britain too, shud be attacking afghanistan civilians. |
AND Candaians
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but they are not intentianley attacking the civilians....
| quote: | | Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Ur rite in that they are aware its war, but what can they do? They cant really evacuate can they, where would they go, how would they proceed? They also have no warning that an attack is coming. And if they did, they hardly hav the resources and the transport to get the hell out of there. Neither can they defend themselves. . |
unfortuantley that is war....its not an exact science u cant guarantee civilians wont die....its sad to see the innocent die...but in any and every war it happens...beleive me the U.S. does not want to kill Afghanistans people...but in any war the civilians die...
| quote: | | Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike sorry. i thought u were the one who started the "stop bashing american" thread, and in the same thread called all ukta's wankers. mustve been someone else. |
i did start that thread but i never called anyone a wanker...
| quote: | | Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike bush cant even read. doesnt he hav all his speeches written phoentically? Im just glad he's not the leader of my country |
most leaders have their speeches written for them by their assistants as do CEOs of companies etc,.,,,they hire people to do it for them...they are not in high school where they can sit down and write essays and rewrite them with corrections.... |
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| bluejay |
| quote: | Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike
hehe... i just think hes made some really bad decisions. And very very recently, the americans bombed an Afghanistan village because they thought they were being attacked. Turns out it was just an afghanistan wedding, with a few fireworks. Some great military america hav got there. Plus, bush cant even read. doesnt he hav all his speeches written phoentically? Im just glad he's not the leader of my country |
lol...ok...
well, i personally don't like him or his father either, but i think he handled 9/11 very well.
but lately, in my book, he has not impressed me at all. i'm sure he is going to try use the whole patriotic theme to get him another term. i don't buy it. as far as his speeches go, he has made a lot of mistakes when he was running, but i think his people have fixed that problem for the most part. |
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| JohnSmith |
well... seems i have started a small war here people..
I just want to let you all know this was not my intention. my intention, was to, in some small way, raise awareness of the fact that the USA and it's allies (yes including canada) are still bombing in afghanistan, more than 9 months after september 11th. many people don't know this. the news networks don't carry the stories any more. This morning, a lot of people died, some reports say 20, some say 130. whatever the number they were innocent.
I do not hate americans, i am friends with many of them. they have done many good things for the world, and it is one of the best countries in the world. if canada, were bombed, the USA would come to our rescue, and vice versa. although our military is pathetic, we wouldn't be much help..
america is not an evil country, nor are it's citizens evil.
The events of september 11th were a tragedy, and the people who committed those acts should be brought to justice.
furthermore, i agree with the bombing of afghanistan, as the taliban was not giving up osama, and he is probably the one who did this. yes innocent people died, and that is sad, but like tiesto14 said, this is a reality of war.
HOWEVER. I belive, as does much of the world, that the time for this to stop is now.
george bush, and the people that support him, need to see something. you cannot kill every terrorist. it is impossible. for every act of revenge you carry out, you give birth to another terrorist.
why, do you think they hate america so much? for your cheese burgers and gap clothing? NO! it's the foreign policy of their governments, which kill children in iraq, and force people into slavery all over the world.
that is why they hate you, that is why sept 11th happened.
and, the more bombs you drop.. the more you increase the chances it will happen again. i do not want to see more people die, whether in canada, america, or afghanistan.
that is all i have to say, arguing about this goes nowhere.
peace. |
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| Izzy |
| quote: | Originally posted by bluejay
if were just to talk about 3 world countries, why would anyone care of their opinions since most of thier ideas are based off of what thier government has led them to believe, and even if they could form thier own opinions with almost no education what-so-ever...why would anyone care for thier opinions. again, i think most people do respect the u.s. |
excellent point.
the majority of 3rd world or developing contries in this world are under non representitive governments. is it so suprising that the majority of countries that hate america are run by dictators who incite hate of the USA in to their society, easy to do when one runs the media and education system. litterly the populace is being brainwashed into hate. i will give you some examples i used in another thread a while back:
the official textbooks for Palestinian school children (published by the Palestinian Ministry of Education).
quote:
"Islam has forbidden flight from the battle and regards this as a grave sin.
(Islamic Education for Eighth Grade #576 p. 176)
Eighth graders are told that peace is morally wrong.
quote:
"Determine what is the subject, and what is the predicate, in the following sentences:
-The Jihad is a religious duty of every Muslim man and woman."
(Our Arabic Language for Fifth Grade #542, p. 167)
Fifth graders are taught that they have a duty to fight religious wars in their grammar lessons.
quote:
"...Martyred Jihad fighters are the most honored people, after the Prophets..."
(Reader And Literary Texts for Tenth Grade #607, p. 103)
Tenth graders are assured blessing and honor as martyrs.
this is where the majority of deep hate comes from, petty fueds such as ones between america and europe dont even matter match, i mean both sides respects the others and it is alright to disagree, but to take those arguments and turn them onto the society as whole to instill with hate... thats a turn for disaster |
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| Time2Burn |
As I sit here listening to Tiesto at Impulz "Open Your eyes" fades in... i feel I should respond.
| quote: | Originally posted by tiesto14
OK...Americans woke up 1 day and where attacked...right?./..ok we where NOT in war times and we did not know of any attacks that could happen...we did not have ANY warning that this was going to happen...well maybe the government did but we as American civilians did not have a glimpse of a warning...
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September 11th was a very important day in American conciousness. It was the day they had the rug pulled out from under their perfect little worlds. It was the day the wool was lifted from their eyes. Unfortunetly the American public didn't see it coming.
But were these not WAR TIMES? We all know now that attacks on America were planned and carried out previously both on American soil and abroad. Well, all know now that a so called "Jihad" had been in place for some time.
So just because CNN had not announced a war to the American public it does not mean there was not a "war" already in progress. The Islamic Jihad had definetly decided there was one. And come on, with all the para-military intelligence the US has they DID know of possible attacks within their own country. Why did they not tell Americans to beware? And if they did would it make the attack better? uhhh NO.
So does consciously knowing a country is at war make it more right or less right to kill innocent people? Of Course not! Does killing innocent civilians at a wedding in Afganistan more morally right because they are aware of a war? Of course NOT! Both are equally condenmable.
10 months of bombing in Afganistan and what has been accomplished? The Taliban has been disbanded. So called Startegic targets have been destroyed (ie Infrastructure, Government buildings, and oh yeah Terrorist training camps.) In addition to this many more civilians lives have been lost and/or ruined.
And what? Where is this so called ring leader they have pegged as the #1 most wanted man in the Wolrd? He is no where to be found! Does this mean they keep bombing a country who is so used to the sound? Do you think Bin Laden actually cares?
In fact he smiles. As more bombs on Afiganistan = more Anti American setiment.
We speak of WAR? War is not something that simply ends with a shake of a hand. Wars end with domination and submition. Wars end at Hiroshima, Wars end at Normandy, Wars end with destruction.
Is this "war against terror" over? It seems the answer is no. Threats of retaliation rage from both sides.
In the end what happens?
WAR.... its a silly game.
Yes... open your eyes...... |
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