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Kerry just conceded (pg. 19)
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by PVD_S11DJ
the fact that the vast majority of americans are traditionalists and put great faith in the vaules that this country was founded upon is the main reason why you saw Kerry lose on Tuesday night. The idea of two men being married, or a baby being aborted at 8 months doesn't sit well in the minds of most of us. I just hope that the liberals continue on their secular path cause its gonna lead them into further defeat in the future. |
Where does the constitution state that abortion and gay marriage should be illegal? The founding father's intended a state of freedom from not freedom to. Subtle but important distinction. |
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| trancEyes22 |
| quote: | Originally posted by PVD_S11DJ
the fact that the vast majority of americans are traditionalists and put great faith in the vaules that this country was founded upon is the main reason why you saw Kerry lose on Tuesday night. The idea of two men being married, or a baby being aborted at 8 months doesn't sit well in the minds of most of us. I just hope that the liberals continue on their secular path cause its gonna lead them into further defeat in the future. |
welcome to 2004 dear. homosexuality has been around since the dawn of time...
EDIT: what happened to seperation of church and state? |
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| PVD_S11DJ |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancEyes22
welcome to 2004 dear. homosexuality has been around since the dawn of time...
EDIT: what happened to seperation of church and state? |
seperation of church and state has nothing to do with redefining marriage. and nobody is dening homosexuals rights. as i said before, i think that they should enjoy all the legal rights that marriage offers, in the form of a civil union. |
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| trunks1022 |
| quote: | Originally posted by PVD_S11DJ
the fact that the vast majority of americans are traditionalists and put great faith in the vaules that this country was founded upon is the main reason why you saw Kerry lose on Tuesday night. The idea of two men being married, or a baby being aborted at 8 months doesn't sit well in the minds of most of us. I just hope that the liberals continue on their secular path cause its gonna lead them into further defeat in the future. |
i thought the US was supposed to be secular? :conf:
VAST majority? 52% might have agreed with bush... but u have to notice that 48% also didn't agree with bush. i hope that bush takes all this into account during the next four years. i'll live with the fact that he's president, but i don't have to like it :) |
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| occrider |
| quote: | Originally posted by PVD_S11DJ
seperation of church and state has nothing to do with redefining marriage. and nobody is dening homosexuals rights. as i said before, i think that they should enjoy all the legal rights that marriage offers, in the form of a civil union. |
I would be in perfect agreeance, however, whilst states may make concessions to civil unions, federal benefits and rights are inexoriably linked to the marriage status. Therefore so long as federal rights hinge upon the issue of marriage, gay marriage proponents have no choice but to lobby for gay marriage rights in order to acheive similar entitlements. |
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| PVD_S11DJ |
| argh, well I live in Massachusetts, home of legal gay marriage - where you never heard the end of the debate for over a year, day after day. I think alot of people who are against it, especially here, are more against how it was brought into law - by the direct ruling of the judges, and not by the will of the people. Either way, its one of those social issues like abortion, in which nobody is ever going to agree. |
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| klingklang77 |
| quote: | Originally posted by PVD_S11DJ
they most definitely are entitled to those same rights, although marriage and legal rights are two different things. many people who are against gay marriage support the idea of a civil union with all the same rights as a married couple would have. |
but within marriage and legal rights, gays should be allowed the same rights, and conservatives are denying this, by saying that gays DONT have legal rights and cant marry and therefore arent granted the same rights as those that are heterosexuals. you are condradicting yourself all over the place. sort it out. |
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| klingklang77 |
| quote: | Originally posted by PVD_S11DJ
and nobody is dening homosexuals rights. |
yeah someone *cough*BUSH*cough* is trying his darndest (bushism) to deny that....... |
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| mizzuno |
| quote: | Originally posted by trunks1022
i thought the US was supposed to be secular? :conf:
VAST majority? 52% might have agreed with bush... but u have to notice that 48% also didn't agree with bush. i hope that bush takes all this into account during the next four years. i'll live with the fact that he's president, but i don't have to like it :) |
first off, show me a president, other than regan that got greater than 52% of the vote(ie landslides are a rarity) the fact of the matter is, since 1994 republicans have been adding to their majority in the Senate and House, republicans have been elected as president in 3 of the last 10 elections. Say what you will these are the facts.
Mizz |
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| trunks1022 |
| quote: | Originally posted by mizzuno
first off, show me a president, other than regan that got greater than 52% of the vote(ie landslides are a rarity) the fact of the matter is, since 1994 republicans have been adding to their majority in the Senate and House, republicans have been elected as president in 3 of the last 10 elections. Say what you will these are the facts.
Mizz |
i'm not disputing any of that. and what u said has almost nothing to do with the second part of my statement.
:conf: :conf:
correction: has *absolutely* nothing |
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| mizzuno |
| quote: | Originally posted by klingklang77
yeah someone *cough*BUSH*cough* is trying his darndest (bushism) to deny that....... |
Why is it that so many people have so little understanding of the US system. Bush has no control over gay marriage, he did propose a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage, after the Massachusetts supreme court blatently defied the Massachusetts constitution and made gay marriage legal. States are the ones that set marriage standards, and by the results of this past election, 11 states voted to deny that, including Oregon which is very liberal state. The bottom line is the courts aren't supposed to create laws, thats the job of the legislature, in fact, judges are supposed to divine what the spirit of the law was when it was enacted. I have gay friends but that doesn't mean I have to agree with gay marriage, thats because marriage by definition and precedant is a union between a man and a woman. Unfortunately many people are out to blur this line and make them equal, i don't believe they are, that doesn't make me a gay basher or a homophobe.
Mizzuno |
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| mizzuno |
| quote: | Originally posted by trancEyes22
welcome to 2004 dear. homosexuality has been around since the dawn of time...
EDIT: what happened to seperation of church and state? |
The idea behind the separation of church and state is that the state cannot set a standard religion and discriminate against others. Religion or lack thereof obviously has an influence on what one believes, and it will always be incorporated into laws. I just find it interesting that you abhor war yet embrace abortion, its killing either way whether you want to acknowledge that or not. I am not anti abortion, but i do believe that my tax dollars should not be used for your abortion. If you wanna have an abortion go ahead, just don't use my money, take some responsibility instead of relying on the state.
Mizz1 |
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