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Gareth Emery: 95% of Trance is Cheesy Bollocks (pg. 6)
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| gizzymcg |
"Big Room" trance or epic trance whatever you want to call it is a victim of its nature. Its there to give the crowd a big wave of emotion and energy. I like DJ's like JOOF etc but at the end of the day they dont give me half the enjoyment live sumone like an O'Bir etc would.
I hate it when people who are into other forms of dance music who say trance aint as good as it used to be. Well is house better than it was in the acid days? I think not. Same as pop music isnt as good as it used to be either. Its just cycles of what people like and dislike at any given time. Uplifiting trance gets a bad rap from other EDM enthusiasts and clubbers alike for this same problem. Its just simply to go through its recycling like every other form of music. People on here say they want to hear forward thinking and experimental trance. Well if you are talking about psy then a lot of the music you talk about would not work commercially in clubs which is what i thought dance music was all about!
Fair play to GTR for saying what he has. But until clubbers stop clubbing i wouldnt sound the death knell for trance that everyone seems to be AGAIN. Like i said before if you look hard enough there are still quality tunes being made in the so called "epic" genre. |
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by gizzymcg
"Big Room" trance or epic trance whatever you want to call it is a victim of its nature. Its there to give the crowd a big wave of emotion and energy. I like DJ's like JOOF etc but at the end of the day they dont give me half the enjoyment live sumone like an O'Bir etc would.
I hate it when people who are into other forms of dance music who say trance aint as good as it used to be. Well is house better than it was in the acid days? I think not. Same as pop music isnt as good as it used to be either. Its just cycles of what people like and dislike at any given time. Uplifiting trance gets a bad rap from other EDM enthusiasts and clubbers alike for this same problem. Its just simply to go through its recycling like every other form of music. People on here say they want to hear forward thinking and experimental trance. Well if you are talking about psy then a lot of the music you talk about would not work commercially in clubs which is what i thought dance music was all about!
Fair play to GTR for saying what he has. But until clubbers stop clubbing i wouldnt sound the death knell for trance that everyone seems to be AGAIN. Like i said before if you look hard enough there are still quality tunes being made in the so called "epic" genre. |
I agree for the most part. But with my post, I wasn't bashing epic trance at all since I am and have been big into it for years. I just think it should go into a less "samey" sounding direction and offereing some newer sounds, and it has to an extent. I'm not calling for the death of it, like some other people, in my eyes at least, seem to want to do. "Vital Spark" is an example i've been using on these threads dealing with this ongoing issue, of what I feel is "quality" epic trance that sounds a bit different, but still has the euphoria, the emotion, and the magic that has made epic so popular. Another one would be last years "3579 KM" by Kalafut & Fygle, although it might not be super high energy as other epic tunes, it certaintly has the elements of an epic trance track at a slower tempo, with some more progressive elements. |
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| thoughtlessjex |
| quote: | Originally posted by Axolotyl
Theres a lot of very talented trance producers out there however I think they are trapped in a cycle of producing tracks to get released on already established labels that are milking generes that got stale a long time ago. For those new to the genre, its a mindblowing sound, but they are the same tricks, sounds and techniques that have been used for the past 5 years. |
It's not so much the producers' faults as it is the labels. The music industry is by its nature very slow to move onto new things, so it like to keep things where they are whenever possible. They'd rather have a genre stagnate than find new paths and be continuously inventive. The go off the assumption, "X band was successful last quarter, so lets sign some bands that sound like them." This continues until an upheaval (like Norah Jones or the recent trend towards indy in the American pop music scene), when the record labels simply sign the most popular artists, then capitalize off of that sound until the next upheaval. The only way for artists to continue getting signed is to keep doing what they're doing, or split off and get ed over by their contract like Prince (or whatever he's called now).
Add this to the fact that the labels have appalling control over the promotion engine. They have the pull to talk to DJs, and get bull news blips put into the 6:00 broadcasts, so they can basically ensure that the music they're publishing at gets at least one listen.
This basically means that labels are responsible for the stagnation of music. They control the output and the input, and they are slow and uninventive, therefore, they choose to keep things as they are.
| quote: | | For trance to stay this way and rehash the old is contrary to the ethos of EDM. It must always be striving to move forward even through the times. I've thought this for a long time, but trance needs an alternative movement with agendas other than releasing big bombs for the masses. It needs to get introspective again and actually start living up to its name. |
Word. This is actually a goal of all of my productions. I try to include a level of thoughtfulness and creativity in my stuff.
| quote: | | but at the same time, there's other forms of trance that itself is not super hypnotic but it's still trance, it's trance in the "trancedent" way |
You mean, transcendent, which is a different word. Trance means a hypnotic, removed state. It is inherently minimalist, focusing on introspection and meditation.
Transcendant means above it all, basically. It is inherently grandiose, attempting to be all encompasing, inspiring, in the case of epic trance, all forms of happiness in one sitting. Transcendent is not Trance. Transcendent does not come from Trance. The two words evolved along different paths. The only reason euphoric trance is called trance is because trance somehow spawned it.
I'll admit, there's good epic out there, but it in no way represents any facet of the trance sound. By all rights, it shouldn't be what people think of when they think, "trance." |
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| Spirit5 |
| quote: | Originally posted by thoughtlessjex
You mean, transcendent, which is a different word. Trance means a hypnotic, removed state. It is inherently minimalist, focusing on introspection and meditation.
Transcendant means above it all, basically. It is inherently grandiose, attempting to be all encompasing, inspiring, in the case of epic trance, all forms of happiness in one sitting. Transcendent is not Trance. Transcendent does not come from Trance. The two words evolved along different paths. The only reason euphoric trance is called trance is because trance somehow spawned it.
I'll admit, there's good epic out there, but it in no way represents any facet of the trance sound. By all rights, it shouldn't be what people think of when they think, "trance." |
Yeah I do mean transcendent, oops typo. I know that is what trance means, and I will admit, I used to think when I heard the epic stuff "how is this putting me in a trance?" but here's how I see i now...
The hypnotic stuff, like psy and the older trance stuff, that puts you into a trance, that is "trance music" in the more precise term of the word. It is exactly what trance is, that IS trance. The feelings of euphoria can come from that as well, but the epic stuff exemplifies the feelings. One is "what puts you in a trance" the other is "what you listen to while trying to escape" hence a trance. Both are forms of escapism, as a lot of music is. One way to experience a "transcedent" state is through hypnotic sounds, as seen in a lot of meditatiation music and music used in native and eastern cultures/religions. The other is like watching a really engrossing movie or reading a really fantastic book, and you just get lost in it and it just makes you feel "detached" from reality for a while, makes you feel your no longer on earth but like in a heavenly place, another world. It tries to create an ethereal atmosphere. Both are in a sense "trance" states, but achieved differently. One is common among eastern and aboriginal cultures (the hypnotic trance) and the other is often found in western cultures (the euphoric trance). Thats the best way I can describe this...or
One is based on an altered state of mind or consciousness (the hypnotic trance) and the other is based around an altered state of being/mood (the euphoric trance). Another analogy I used is LSD creating an altered state of consciousness, creating hallucinations..that is hypnotic trance, and ecstacy creating an elevated mood, heightened state of being, that is euphoric trance. Trying to piece this all together still, just trying to make it all fit as i've seen it.. |
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| Spirit5 |
This can also be seen in the Goa vs. Epic field, as Goa was made popular in India (Goa) which is in the East, and Epic which was made popular in the West (mostly in Netherlands, and other parts of Europe).
Edit: IMO The BEST tracks are the ones that combine both the hypnotic, trancey sounds with the euphoric, transcedent sounds to create a hybrid of the two. Two examples are BT's Ima, and even some of the tracks on ESCM, which were both hypnotic and euphoric. Another example is PvD's earlier stuff, like "Another Way", "Seven Ways" and "Words". |
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| thoughtlessjex |
| quote: | | One is "what puts you in a trance" the other is "what you listen to while trying to escape" hence a trance. Both are forms of escapism, as a lot of music is. |
Except that escapism doesn't mean trance. You're confusing squares and rectangles here; trance is escapism, but the converse is not a tautology. Just because trance and altered moods are both escapist doesn't mean they're the same thing.
| quote: | | The other is like watching a really engrossing movie or reading a really fantastic book, and you just get lost in it and it just makes you feel "detached" from reality for a while, makes you feel your no longer on earth but like in a heavenly place, another world. It tries to create an ethereal atmosphere. |
You're confusing trance with elevation. Trance is not an inherently elevated state. On the contrary, it is very subdued and meditative. I hear what you're saying about an ethereal atmosphere, but very little epic trance goes for that, and the tracks that do rarely maintain it. Rather, most go for an angelic atmosphere, an elevated atmosphere. It's active, adrenaline pumping, heightened brain activity music. That's all well and good, but it's not trance, because trance is rather a suspension of brain activity. Trance is an extended moment of clarity, when there is nothing in your mind but the sound. This is different from being in a higher world, this is when the music is the world.
| quote: | | Another analogy I used is LSD creating an altered state of consciousness, creating hallucinations..that is hypnotic trance, and ecstacy creating an elevated mood, heightened state of being, that is euphoric trance. |
You seem to think I'm talking about psy trance. I'm talking about trance. Psy trance is about the trips, not about the meditativeness, although most real trance these days tends to come from psy, because psy tends to lend itself more to hypnotic rhythms and melodies as opposed to the straightforwardness of melodic trance. There are uplifting trancers that come near achieving this state, but they generally screw it up by getting all overbearing and generic. (Ligaya could have changed trance for the better if it weren't for the ing breakdown and melody.)
I don't see trance as LSD. The entranced state seems more conducive to dissociatives like ketamine to me. With LSD, your perception of the world around you is altered, with ecstacy, you are elevated to a heightened awareness of the world you inhabit, but a dissociative changes the world itself.
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| quote: | | Edit: IMO The BEST tracks are the ones that combine both the hypnotic, trancey sounds with the euphoric, transcedent sounds to create a hybrid of the two. Two examples are BT's Ima, and even some of the tracks on ESCM, which were both hypnotic and euphoric. Another example is PvD's earlier stuff, like "Another Way", "Seven Ways" and "Words". |
I get the impression that you and I are working from different definitions of "euphoric" if you're calling Seven Ways euphoric. :D
Like I said, though, it's possible to mix the euphoric with the trancy, it's just that most euphorica trance producers don't even try. Some can totally do it, but instead sell out by forcing yet another predictable melody on the masses.
Personally, I consider BT - Nectar to be a perfect example of what can be done to make euphoric trance trancey. |
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| Lunar Phase 7 |
Phil Raa and some others hit the nail on ther head here.
90-95% of everything in the world is bollocks. You'll see chefs moaning about the quality of ingredients today, you'll hear people moaning about how football isnt the game it used to be, you'll hear people moaning about how heavy metal is all generic nowadays.
Trance at the moment is the best it's ever been really, of course there are stand out mega tunes from yesteryear or whatever. But so many tracks sound compared to todays production standard, both in the so called generic "supersaw stadium" trance sound, and the more original music.
More people producing means you gotta pull summet special off to get anywhere, where as 10 years back, make anything slightly decent and it was a signer for sure.
GRT made some good points, but also a lot of bollocks too.
AND that darude vs. joca rally going on
ROFLMAO LOLLER COASTER!!! |
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| 303 |
Ok, Gareth might not be the the right person to out such things in this case, but the overall message is pretty much spot on imo. Ive said it before and im sure its still valid. Internet pretty much killed trance, or at least has played a big part to bring it down to its current poor state.
With big name DJ's rather pleasing a crowd then try to go for progression and play something new they too are responsible for what were witnessing today. Luckily there are exceptions out there, which will be the ones to make sure we will surely enjoy real trance for some time to come, even if a much smaller setting than today. |
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| Lunar Phase 7 |
It's the same with every genre mate. Trance aint been killed, nor will it die.
There are producers out there that are making mind blowing stuff.
DJ's spinning mind blowing tunes.
What GTR said was spot on for everything if you look at the bigger picture.
Look back to 1999-2000 and while you have some of your precious classics, you got some uber crap tunes too. Same with today. |
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| RebeL9 |
| quote: | Originally posted by Tayfoon
Lawrence im seeing in 2 weeks |
you haven't seen Lawrence and still you assume he plays psy. You are a funny guy. |
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| Light The Fuse |
i like gtr and i like what he said. as far as uplifting trance goes - his set down here at r00m680 in oz about 2 years ago was probably one of the best ive heard.
yeah he plays the hits - because he has too - he is known for that mistral sound and if he doesnt drop it, he'll get bashed :p
i spoke to him 2 years ago after that set and told him i enjoyed the slighty techier/proggy (real trance) elements in his set - and you know what he said then? I wish i could play more of it.
an environment has been created in trance where if its not asot/tiesto/mcprog stuff then its prog or its psy - but it aint trance...this is the problem faced right here.
you see it everywhere - on this board is no exception - people give up on trance and turn to tech or prog, because 90% of prog is better than 95% of trance. hes damn right in my opinion. good luck too him i say :)
and i do not see HOW ANYONE CAN SAY TRANCE IS AS GOOD AS IT HAS EVER BEEN BECAUSE IT ISNT - IT IS UNIMAGINATIVE, BORING, SKINNY WHITEBOY, GROOVLESS, WANNABE, OVERPRODUCED, HOLYIER THAN THOU MESSS! (well 95% of it anyway) |
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| CHRles |
| quote: | Originally posted by Spirit5
Edit: IMO The BEST tracks are the ones that combine both the hypnotic, trancey sounds with the euphoric, transcedent sounds to create a hybrid of the two. Two examples are BT's Ima, and even some of the tracks on ESCM, which were both hypnotic and euphoric. Another example is PvD's earlier stuff, like "Another Way", "Seven Ways" and "Words". |
What about John 00 Fleming vs. Astrix "3rd Time Lucky", Yahel "For The People", or Sub 6 Feat. Michel Adamson "7th Son" ? |
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